[mark sr]

I've never had any issues with paint adhering to any pigmented shellac including BIN. Did you scuff sand the BIN before applying the paint?

 

[Skoorb]

I've never had any issues with paint adhering to any pigmented shellac including BIN. Did you scuff sand the BIN before applying the paint?

Some I sanded, some I didn't; I can't honestly discern a difference in their resiliency to scraping whether I sanded or didn't.

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

STIX or Xim UMA would have been the primer of choice. PPG breakthrough or CabinetCoat could have been applied directly over that with a light scuff sand.

My choice would have been to use Stix and top coat with Advance.

 

[kerryman71]

I agree with coco, Insl-X Stix primer with Ben Moore Advance for a top coat.

Prep is huge. Thorough cleaning, sanding, rinsing etc. before you even start to apply product.

John

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

I agree with coco, Insl-X Stix primer with Ben Moore Advance for a top coat.

Prep is huge. Thorough cleaning, sanding, rinsing etc. before you even start to apply product.

John

Hop over to PT and a few recent threads where professional's didn't do the correct prep. End up costing 3x to fix bad prep and pissed off HO's.

 

[Jmayspaint]

That’s odd. Shellac is generally considered a good barrier coat for just about any coating. If your top coat isn’t adhering to it, I would suspect the problem in in the top coat itself.


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[kerryman71]

Hop over to PT and a few recent threads where professional's didn't do the correct prep. End up costing 3x to fix bad prep and pissed off HO's.

I actually am over there, same username. I prep so much, and just when I think I've prepped enough, I do some more. Nothing too crazy that will add insane costs to the job, but enough that when I apply product I don't have to lay awake at night wondering if I did enough, ha ha.

I fully explain the process to customers, most of whom like the fact that I'm thorough. I tell them why and they agree that yes, once I leave, they don't want me back unless it's for a totally different job they have for me. Why take a chance?

John

 

[Skoorb]

That’s odd. Shellac is generally considered a good barrier coat for just about any coating. If your top coat isn’t adhering to it, I would suspect the problem in in the top coat itself.


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To be fair I don't know what a reasonable level of adhesion is. It's not like this is peeling off and flaking and just dropping off the primer. I can handle it, I can rub it and wipe it down with cloth. It's just really "soft". They had a piece of scrap at sherwin with one coat of this urethane and it was rock hard, barely took a mark when scratched with finger nail. I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect it to be any harder months from now (but who knows).

The BIN has worked great to stick to the cabinet (way better than the extreme bond water primer did), it really has adhered very well. Had I tinted it to begin with I wouldn't even notice the top coat is vulnerable. The molding and large areas will be fine anyway because they are never rubbed. If I have to redo the frames (removing paint hopefully wouldn't be too hard if that ends up happening) it won't be the end of the world, and hopefully I can train people to use the handles as much as possible :biggrin2:

 

[Skoorb]

Doors are all up now, hardware installed. I'm very pleased with the look. Not smooth like it was sprayed, but it came out well.

As I come up on a month on some of the earlier paints, I got some filth on one of the cabinets and wiping around the sharp points around molding brought me down to primer. Overall, I would never use this combination of paints again. I know people do well with paints over the bin, but this emerald urethane is just very soft over it and not a tough surface at all.

Considering a coat of poly over everything but I'll need to test on the back of a door first. That could also make touching up very tough long term.

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

Doors are all up now, hardware installed. I'm very pleased with the look. Not smooth like it was sprayed, but it came out well.

As I come up on a month on some of the earlier paints, I got some filth on one of the cabinets and wiping around the sharp points around molding brought me down to primer. Overall, I would never use this combination of paints again. I know people do well with paints over the bin, but this emerald urethane is just very soft over it and not a tough surface at all.

Considering a coat of poly over everything but I'll need to test on the back of a door first. That could also make touching up very tough long term.

I don't care for anything SW but it is an alkyd so give it 30 days to cure before judging hardness.

Stix+advance or CC better choice IMO.

 

[Skoorb]

I don't care for anything SW but it is an alkyd so give it 30 days to cure before judging hardness.

Stix+advance or CC better choice IMO.

Almost two years later I can give a review of performance.

Cabinets have overall held up well. I do get down to either primer or bare wood on certain high wear spots (such as certain edges where dishes hit over and over, etc.), but every six months I take a half hour and a small brush to just correct those. With that done, it looks like new. And before it's done nobody else but me would really notice.

Stands up just fine to wiping, even aggressively, without leaving paint on a piece of paper towel.

 

[kerryman71]

Thanks for the update.

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

Almost two years later I can give a review of performance.

Cabinets have overall held up well. I do get down to either primer or bare wood on certain high wear spots (such as certain edges where dishes hit over and over, etc.), but every six months I take a half hour and a small brush to just correct those. With that done, it looks like new. And before it's done nobody else but me would really notice.

Stands up just fine to wiping, even aggressively, without leaving paint on a piece of paper towel.

Sounds like normal wear/tear for paint grade stuff. Being able to touch up is one of the benefits of paint grade over lacquers and one reason not to clear coat over paint.

 

[Skoorb]

Yep it worked out enough that despite my initial comment that "Overall, I would never use this combination of paints again.", I did, in fact, do it again this year on a bathroom vanity. Exact same combination of products

 

[avgjoeblack]

Yep it worked out enough that despite my initial comment that "Overall, I would never use this combination of paints again.", I did, in fact, do it again this year on a bathroom vanity. Exact same combination of products

Very nice. Now, you said, there wasn't really a need to sand it since you were using BIN primer?



I'm ready to do mines.

 

[mark sr]

While BIN has great adhesion properties it's still a good idea to sand.

 

[Skoorb]

Very nice. Now, you said, there wasn't really a need to sand it since you were using BIN primer?



I'm ready to do mines.

The BIN adheres like a mother. Ideally you'd scuff up the surfaces you're putting it on. I may have scuffed them lightly and I did definitely clean them thoroughly first. I imagine that sanding the bin itself after it dries before the top coat would be good but I didn't do much of that.

The best way to have a nice looking job is when using the brush around all the trim go multiple light coats because that's the only way to ensure you don't end up with excessive clumping/dripping, etc. which is the hallmark of a sloppy job For the roller I used a 6" mini roller (whichever brand has the yellow and blue packaging at lowes).

I also kept the doors off the cabinets for a few weeks to help harden up before putting back into service. I did replace the handles and if you go that route, remote the old knobs, fill the holes with minwax two part wood filler (only two part--don't bother with one-part wood filler). You can get this at lowes, then sand flat and you can add new hardware.

Frankly I found the entire job fairly satisfying, not terribly difficult. Take your time, realize it's going to turn out fine and listen to music. Good luck!