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Reality check on HVAC Comm Fault Problem

13K views 7 replies 5 participants last post by  spur0701  
#1 ·
I'm fairly handy, I've installed new thermostats and checked and refilled the Freon for my HVACs in the past and had a late uncle that was an HVAC guy. However, fast forward to today, I have a Carrier Infinity 2 stage AC system that was installed in the house in 2015 and it has more than it's fair share of electronics. Have never had a problem since the install but the outside unit completely stopped working about a month ago, so since it was under warranty (10 years) I put in a service call with the company that installed it, they responded and said the capacitor had gone bad, they installed a new one for $250 (labor and service call cost) and the unit was back up and running.

A few weeks later we notice that it wasn't running and the inside controller was showing fault 179 outdoor unit communication fault with the same fault occurring about 25 times. We call the company back out, they pull everything apart on the outside and inside unit and test all the connections and can't find anything wrong and diagnose it as a bad circuit board on the outside unit. As they are telling me what the diagnosis is and that they have the circuit board in stock and can install it the next day the system reboots and starts working. They then explain that it is probably the circuit board for the outdoor unit going bad and since it's under warranty the only change would be for the labor. I tell them to go ahead and replace it, they do so the next day and the cost for the service call the previous day and the replacement of the circuit board is $500.

We go on vacation the next day and when we get back two weeks later we walk into a hot house and the controller is showing the same error code 179 outdoor unit communication fault occurring 50 times. We call the tech back out and now they say that our power could be "dirty" and recommend installing a a surge protector on the outside power feed.....another $300 for the service call and surge protector install. 3 hours later the outdoor unit shuts off and the indoor controller show the same error message 179. For the past several days it will cut in and out, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and it's now up to about 75 instances of this same 179 fault.

It's at this point I finally start to think the contractor is milking me since I've paid $800 with no movement on resolving the problem. I call a friend of a friend who is an HVAC guy in another state, he's too far away to do anything for me except offer advice and he says he doesn't work on Carrier Infinity units since they are too complicated. Given the fact pattern of the house being built in 1999 his guess is that when they replaced the unit in 2015 they used the old wiring to the outdoor unit and it's further degraded over time and a new wire needs to be run and the company I had doing the service calls on the 179 comm fault simply tried troubleshooting the easiest fixes not the most probable fixes because fishing a new wire to the outdoor unit is a pain......and so they could bill me for as much as possible.

So my question is am I being too mistrusting of the contractor I've been using? It would seem to me that Occum's Razor would apply, the simplest explanation being the most probable, and its the wire to the outside unit that needs to be replaced and that I should dump my contractor and move to another that services Infinity systems to confirm my diagnoses and replace the wire. Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.
 
#7 ·
I have been having the same issue. First time it happen, we had a tech come out and they replace two fuses and it fix the 179 fault code. Kept working for years no issues. Then recently it started again. Change fuses myself and started working. Now it's working and not working. Not sure what it is. Don't have money to have someone come in to fix it. Has your ac unit code 179 ever return since you ran a new line? Thanks.
 
#6 ·
Just wanted to close out this thread with the end result.....we ran a new line down the hall and out the window from the indoor to outdoor unit and the com fault went away, no occurrences after a week so we fished a new line and it's beening running with no faults for a couple of weeks now. Thanks for all the help.............
 
#5 ·
You're getting the typical run around that most get. They can't figure it out so they just throw parts at it. All easy parts first. Probably wise to talk with the company owner, which hopefully will prompt someone with some intelligence to your jobsite.

Nothing like swapping the ol capacitor when you have a communications error.

Some of the issue is these guys have no clue what they are looking at. They read the manual just like you and it says "if error xxx, replace board".... worthless.

Personally, I might run a temporary wire to replace the other one, and see if that resolves the issue. I see terminations as a huge cause of electrical com and power issues.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the advice, I neglected to mention that I checked the float switch after I started getting the fault 179 comm error, no problems there.

One point of clarification, I can't remember if the 179 fault was displayed when the A/C first went down.....but it's been a continuing problem since that first visit when the capacitor was changed, I know that for sure.

I'm not sure when the 179 fault occurs during the outdoor unit duty cycle, this is a two stage unit and runs almost always at a lower level which mostly dehumidifies the air. From the system logs it seems to occur at random times, it will go up and down on it's own.

At this point we've run a new line down the hall and out the window from the indoor to outdoor unit to see if that solves the problem..........
 
#3 ·
So my question is am I being too mistrusting of the contractor I've been using?
No, I don't think you're being too mistrusting. You've described them coming out 3 times, charging you $250 + $500 + $300, and they still haven't resolved the problem. Furthermore, on the first service call, they told you a bad capacitor was the reason for your code 179. However, a bad cap does not trigger an Outdoor Unit Communication fault code. So, right off the bat alarm bells should have been ringing that they either don't know what they're doing or they're intentionally stringing you along trying to milk as many service calls out of you as possible.

At this point, they've replaced the circuit board. So, assuming it's actually a new board, that should no longer be a potential fault source. That leaves a couple of high probability sources of the problem. One is what your HVAC friend of a friend mentioned - the wiring running to the outside unit. Another, which alot of people don't realize, is the float switch on the air handler. Even though that's part of the inside unit, it can trigger a code 179 by interrupting communication to the outside unit. So, check it first. If that's no the problem then you're back to the old wiring being the likely culprit and you have a decision to make. As you've discovered, just because the unit is under warranty, that just covers parts and the local dealer can charge you whatever they want for the service call, labor, etc. So, based on your experience with them thus far, imagine what they will charge for the re-wiring and ask yourself if you wouldn't rather just buy it yourself (for MUCH less money than they will charge) and wire it up temporarily using the most direct/easiest route to see if it solves the problem. If so, then redo it along the permanent route you want it. Either way, you would spend far less than what they're going to charge you and I suspect it will leave you far more satisfied to not give them even more money.
 
#2 ·
A new wire must be replaced when the system was installed, the wire is very special and can transmit the PWM signal between indoor and outdoor units, the PWM signal could be decreased even if the signal transmition distance is far, so check the connections of the communication wires indoor and outdoor is the first job to do, and replace it.

Does the fault code come when you start the ac or happen during the period of time when the ac runs? It is very critical to make a judgment that you should focus on the indoor unit or the outdoor unit, the PWM signals have their power supply circuit, either from the indoor board or the outdoor board, it should be checked after replacing the wire.

Does the fault code reset itself and then start to run for a while, have the same code again? You should check something like the float switch at the indoor unit, and install a surge protector indoors.