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Push-In Wire connectors vs Wire Nuts

15K views 45 replies 14 participants last post by  quatsch  
#1 ·
Has anyone had experience with push-in wire connectors and do you recommend them over wire nuts ? Brands ? The immediate need would be for a replacement of a section of nm-b-12 in an attic, but this would be for other projects also.
 
#6 ·
Don't go crazy. WAGOs have their place but you still need wire nuts. WAGOs are good for #12 and smaller wires but you need other connectors for larger wires. Yes I know they make a WAGO for number #10 but I (as a personal preference) do not use WAGOs on high amperage circuits.
 
#8 ·
Are the push in connectors with no lever also better than wire nuts? Better than backstab connections on receptacles, etc.?
 
#16 ·
Between what points were those measurements taken? How were variables like torque eliminated? How was contact area calculated? Contact area will be different depending on wire sizes and combinations and wire connector sizes.
 
#17 ·
I have some Wagos that I use especially when there are multiple wire connections in the box and it's not a simple circuit. They take less space than wire nuts and can sometimes eliminate the use of an extra wire nut if you need to pigtail something. They are very expensive though (relative to wire nuts) and wire nuts are really easy to use for simple circuits, so I save the Wagos for difficult circumstances. I also use this style of connector when aluminum gets mixed in.

 
#18 ·
To clarify:

For reference, here's some numbers, best to worst. Lower is better. All solid, no stranded conductors.
Resistance depends on pressure & mating surface area

Main Panel connections, 23 uOhms,
so high pressure & high area is the
meaning I pull out of this number.

outlet screws, 165 uOhms
high pressure & high area

Wirenut, 440 uOhms
med press? & medium area?

backstab, 720 uOhms
low pressure & low area

plug/socket, 5 mOhms
low pressure & unknown area

I don’t know how these values
hold up over time except for backstabs,
which don’t seem to hold up well.
 
#20 ·
I think his point was just that all else being equal, backstab have a measurably higher resistance (impedence) which indirectly helps explain why they're less reliable (i.e. low pressure and low area). And that's assuming the backstab mechanism works perfectly, which it doesn't. How well the wire nut and outlet screws work is more a function of how well the installer uses it, whereas with backstabbing, you can be an expert backstabber but the mechanism just sucks, which is out of your control.
 
#23 ·
You're kind of comparing apples to oranges there - "fail" vs. "melt". Have you seen a wire nut melt? I've never seen that, but I have seen wire nuts "fail" in the sense that they didn't hold the wires securely (i.e. the threads didn't take hold of all wires.) I've never seen a Wago fail, but then I've never seen a Wago anywhere except in my own hands :)
 
#22 ·
But the resistance of a backstab changes based on how many times and the amount of heat cycling involved. Backstabs can and have performed for years, often without issue. If they are so problematic why does the standard still allow them or why hasn't the standard and design changed? Backstabs remove the variable of correct torque applied to screw connections.

I have probably seen an equal number of melted wire nut but the information posted above says they are superior to a backstab.
 
#25 ·
But the resistance of a backstab changes based on how many times and the amount of heat cycling involved. Backstabs can and have performed for years, often without issue. If they are so problematic why does the standard still allow them or why hasn't the standard and design changed? Backstabs remove the variable of correct torque applied to screw connections.
I would say a good screw connection is better than a good backstab connection, but you have a good point about removing the variable from the user's hands.

As to why hasn't the standards changed, well standards do change all the time. Like if we were having this discussion in 1970 and you said "If GFCI are so good at protecting against current leaks, then why aren't they required by code?" And I'd say "I don't know, maybe someday they will be."

I don't know why the standard hasn't changed. All I can tell you is that I've taken out numerous (more than 10) backstabbed outlets that were the source of problems, or when I removed the outlet from the box the backstab mechanism just broke apart. It is probably the single most common failure I've seen in outlets, with the next ones being broken/old GFCI devices and corroded outlets in exterior settings. But you are a real electrician and I'm sure you've seen more than I have.
 
#32 ·
You seem to be saying that, in your experience, the initial or long-term contact resistance of WAGOs is high.
I don't see it that way at all. No mention was made about resistance. It was that different methods can be better than others in some situations. If the Wago cannot accept larger conductors another method needs to be used.
 
#33 ·
If you get too fat a wire into a connection the stiffness of the wire can cause the metal to metal contact inside to become poorer or even cause a flimsy connection port to break apart. I have seen backstab connections labeled for 14 gauge wire only while the screws next to them were rated for 12 or 14 gauge.
 
#42 ·
Here is a melted wago, or other brand. This is in a ladies locker room, individual circuit, GFCI, and the push-in connector melted.
These receptacles have a wiring harness that attaches to the receptacle via pins. The pushin connectors are part of the wiring harness and are rated
for stranded and solid wires.

The building had only been open for 1 year and 1 month at the time of replacement.
 

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