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mknmike

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I’ve owned multiple homes with brick patios and dealt with weeds growing through bricks. It’s worse in sunny and wet locations, and my latest purchase has a rear yard that needs to soak up water and currently has a brick patio. But there’s a pool, and we do think that some brick patio will be good. I’m thinking that outdoor carpeting will be good to keep the weeds at bay. Maybe just a bunch of them in locations where we want furniture will be all we need.
I understand essentially closing up the area and making the ground impermeable would solve the problem, but I don’t want to do that. Maybe building a deck over it all is another option.

I may just rearrange the brick patio so it’s only near the pool and helps shed water away from the pool.

The previous landscaper used roundup weed killer, and that’s not my cup of tea.

Maybe if there’s a nice looking outdoor carpet that will last many years, that will do.
 
OK, get some carpets if covering up your brick is acceptable. Or build a deck. But if you want brick with ZERO weeds, it needs to be a system with stable, mortared joints. You need to pick, because those are your weed-free options.

You didn't elaborate on your objection to Roundup (environmental, health, repeat application?) Something you need to know about Roundup is that it does not prevent new weeds. It just kills the green ones that are there so they don't regrow from the roots. Or pull the weeds early on, and immediately apply a pre-emergent in the joints. Pre-emergents are relatively benign--so much so that many can be applied over top of existing flowers and landscaping. They simply prevent seeds from germinating or coming to fruition for the rest of the season. If it's a liquid (Surflan) it can go down at the same time as Roundup, and it's easy enough to keep it mostly in the joints. Or use a granular like Preen and broom it into the joints. Not sure if the use of pre-emergents is your cup of tea?
 
I was going to suggest some kinda ground clear liquid in a garden sprayer.
Once/year or mix it stronger than package for longer effectiveness.
Could spread some salt but that brings up many other issues.

FWIW...Don.
Using standard application precautions, I personally have no environmental or health qualms about using Roundup (for 48 years)--but some do. It is relatively benign to the point that you can spray an area today and plant grass there several weeks later. There is no residual action. Which is why you need a pre-emergent for seasonal control. Most homeowner "ground clear" agents are premixed Roundup (glyphosate) + various pre-emergents. Some total-kills are simply harsh chemicals that kill and literally poison the ground for a year or more. They should not be avoided in most residential situations.

Salt, vinegar, and bleach are relatively harmless and will kill weeds, and may offer limited suppression. They could also leach into nearby lawn and garden areas. Most residential pre-emergents are classified as NOT "chemicals of concern", can last a season, and are not usually harmful to established plants.
 
I buy/use RU and Ortho ground clear concentrate, mix my own.
As stated, I've used RU to burn down an area, planted grass seed 4 days later, w/no ill effects.

I mixed ground clear 3x package directions for 1 area 3+ years ago. Vegetation is just starting to regrow.

Deer salt block in the back field, dissolved for years, nothing grew until I removed and replaced the dirt.

My ex-neighbor complained about the use of RU on crop fields and such. He may have valid arguments against its use but, for me, its a big time labor saver for my needs.

To each his/her own...Don.
 
Discussion starter · #6 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

I wish I had some pictures on my phone if the patios at either my home or the house we recently purchased.

One thing about this patio are in the recently purchased house is that:

1) the roof drains to the patio and flash-floods an area of the patio several times a year. There is no clear path for the water to exist the yard in the current configuration so some amount of the rain is forced to permeate into the ground.

2) there is a large mail Ginko tree that has roots that are running under the patio. So I figure anything that’s bad for the weeds is probably bad for the tree.

That reminds me that I may have pictures in another thread here. Well, you can’t see much of the patio here. It gives an idea of the importance or the roots of the tree though.
Image
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
As far as the chemicals go, I figure anything that’s going to kill plants chemically seems like it’s got to be bad for something.

I generally try to avoid using them. I do use poisons and baits for rodents and ants.

ANTS. Those are another patio problem, not so much at the main house in question, but at my current home that has tightly fitted bricks on top of a sand base. The ants carry out sand making those little sand dunes. Clearly brick patios (or any flat stone in the middle of a yard) make a nice protective cover for an ant colony.

A patio is really nice in winter, and really anywhere you’re going to commonly walk. Also, to compare to furniture left in a grass lawn, it’s easier to pick weeds a few times a year than it is to move furniture every time you want to mow the lawn. Plus it feels cleaner to sit on it without concern for bugs jumping all over you. Solid top tables and umbrellas will end up killing grass anyway too.

I’m trying to figure out what to do with this back yard. I will probably work on the drainage with the adjacent neighbor to see if we can agree on a solution that’s mutually beneficial. I’m thinking of rearranging the brick patio so the low areas are soil, not brick. I figure the rainwater is going to always bring debris to the low areas. So I will constantly be cleaning off bricks if I leave it this way. Also, the roots from the tree are so large that leveling the patio with soil might not be practical. Furthermore, having grass so close to the swimming pool that gets cut or weedwacked will always result in more debris in the pool to be cleaned out. So I’m thinking that making the patio more focal on the pool might be beneficial. Perhaps chairs outside the pool fence might seem like they are arranged around the pool.

In the picture below, the area in blue floods. To the left of it is a raised bed that captures the water on my property until the water level gets over the raised bed, at which point it floods my neighbor’s yard. So the more permeable I make the ground, with plants that will absorb the water the better. There is a dry well in this location that has pipes that I believe just distribute the water to different locations in the yard, like under the raised flower beds. I am thinking that it might make sense to remove bricks from this area as the patio is already so bumpy here, and move them to the right side of the yard around the pool fence.

I also believe there were two additional trees near this low point in the yard. Perhaps it will make sense for me to plant another shade tree. I don’t know. I am not in a rush to get this done, but was certainly overwhelmed with the amount of weeds growing out of the patio this week. It’s not yet at the point where the brick patio seems like a lawn that needs mowing, but I’ve had a property where that was the case. We just started mowing the patio as if it was a lawn. I ultimately removed the bricks and was pleased with the sodded lawn solution I replaced it with.

Using the information people have shared in this thread, I will figure it out, and as I re-lay the bricks, I will be sure to use media that will be less likely to invite weeds. THANK YOU!!

Image
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
I was not aware of pre-emergents, and am grateful for the lesson. This is new data to me.

- “know about Roundup is that it does not prevent new weeds.”

- pre-emergents:
“pull the weeds early on, and immediately apply a pre-emergent in the joints. Pre-emergents are relatively benign--so much so that many can be applied over top of existing flowers and landscaping. They simply prevent seeds from germinating or coming to fruition for the rest of the season. If it's a liquid (Surflan) it can go down at the same time as Roundup, and it's easy enough to keep it mostly in the joints. Or use a granular like Preen and broom it into the joints”

So “Surflan” is a liquid pre-emergent, and “Preen” is a granular pre-emergent.

Since the gaps in these old bricks are large, it sounds like I should kill all the weeds, maybe with roundup or just pick them all, and then keep buckets of Preen and fill the gaps in the bricks with it. It sounds like Preen or Suflan is a great way to stop weeds. Heck, it seems like something I’d want my entire property to be filled with if I want to control exactly what plants grow in each place. I wonder if sprinkling it into the pachysandra out front, or in the lorriope (sp?) tall grasses out front would be ideal. I’ve got a lot to learn about gardening. It’s not something I’ve ever tried to learn. My time has come.

THANK YOU!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I was not aware of pre-emergents, and am grateful for the lesson. This is new data to me.

it seems like something I’d want my entire property to be filled with if I want to control exactly what plants grow in each place.
You got it. If you want to learn the proper use of herbicides, learn the various classes and types first. Systemic vs non-systemic. Selective vs non-selective. Post-emergent vs pre-emergent. Roundup is a systemic, non-selective, post-emergent herbicide. [IE. When it gets into a plant leaf it travels the plant's "system" all the way to the roots and kills the entire plant. It is "not selective" in what it kills (grasses, broadleaves, any species). It works on "emerged" plants...it does not prevent emergence.

Additionally, RU must be applied to plant leaves to work. Applied to the soil, it won't enter through the roots. This means you can safely spray it around the base of trees and shrubs that are listed on the label. BTW, never pay for RoundUp brand. The patent expired, and the generic i41% glyphosate is about 1/3 the cost of RU.

You don't need to fill the joints in your bricks with preen. A light sprinkle on the bricks, broomed in, would be 10x more than you need. You just need a tiny bit in the joints. Many pre-emergents are so benign that you can sprinkle/spray them right over shrubs and flowers that are on the label. So, yes, they are great for keeping new weed seeds from emerging in the ground covers you mentioned. Check the labels on Preen (trifluralin) and Surflan (oryzalin) to see if they are compatible with your plants. There are quite a few others if those don't match up.

Which brings us to this: you MUST learn how to read a product label. That has invaluable info you must know to use it properly and safely. A bit to learn, but a few hours applying weed controls early in the season will save you hundreds of hours of landscape work in your lifetime. And your property will look great year 'round.
 
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The area inside the shelter is where I sprayed the ground clear.
A very mature cotton wood in the back ground....
Image

Image


I spray RU around all of my trees for easier mowing.
This red maple has exposed roots as do 4 other maple trees not pictured.....
Image


All 3 pics taken earlier today.

Pre-emergent chemical will prevent any bulbs, flowers you may have in that area.

FWIW...Don.
 
Pre-emergent chemical will prevent any bulbs, flowers you may have in that area.
FWIW...Don.
Used as directed, Surflan (orizaline) and (Preen) trifluralin, among others, can be safe to used for weed control in bulb gardens.

To clarify about flowers--pre-emergents can be used around newly planted or established flowers. You just can't plant them from seeds.
 
Used as directed, Surflan (orizaline) and (Preen) trifluralin, among others, can be safe to used for weed control in bulb gardens.
Maybe I did not follow package directions. I used preen one year.
The next spring, wife's tulip/daffodil/crocus bulbs, many did not grow.

FWIW...Don.
 
Maybe I did not follow package directions. I used preen one year.
The next spring, wife's tulip/daffodil/crocus bulbs, many did not grow.
My prior admonition: "you MUST learn to read [horticultureal chemical] labels".

It will tell you, among other things:

Health Caution/Warning etc
Applicator/mixer protection required (if any)
Mix rate, if applicable
How it works
What plants tolerate it
What (weed/insect/disease) it will control
How much per session
How much per year
Timing of application for various situations
That is only a PARTIAL list--you must read labels!

Standard Preen (triflualin) is only listed for Tulips (I think). BTW, Preen makes a number of different pre-emergents. Oryzalin (Surflan) is listed for tulips and daffodils. There are lots of databases that will match the proper chemical to the proper plants/pest/disease so you don't have to research every product out there. Or google "what pre-emergent for crocus" or whatever. Read the label...from beginning to end...carefully. Follow directions exactly.

I buy my products by chemical name. Some brands are exactly the same chemical and cost twice as much.
 
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