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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain

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#21 ·
adgjqetuo said:
Sorry to keep this on-going, but I got a third estimate.

This guy said he would use Cabot and do the entire deck by brush - which I really liked.

But this next part concerned me after reading your responses so I'm hoping for some insight.

He told me that he would do 2 coats of stain on the entire deck. Then on the hand rails (top cap) only he said he would do a third coat using transparent to "make it shine" and have a polished finish.

From sand to finish - approx 4-5 days with 2 guys

Is this an Ok practice?

He also said it will last 4-5 years and he would guarantee it for 3. But he was foreign so it was hard to fully understand him and I'm not 100% sure he understood me when I asked how long he would warranty it for.
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Most deck stains are only a one coat application. Applying multiply coats will usually leed to failure of the stain. Most deck stains will only last about two years on the walking surface before applying a maintenance coat.
 
#22 · (Edited)
jeffnc said:
You use the term "toner" and I don't know if there's a technical difference between "stain" and "toner". There are different "levels" of stain, where they have different amounts of solids in them. Such as "clear", "transparent", "translucent", "semi-transparent", "semi-solid", "solid". The way I learned it was that the more solids it has in it, the less penetrative it would be, but the more UV resistant it would be. I think having some tone to it reduces UV rays to an extent, but allows maintenance coats. You seem to be saying that any solids will eventually build up, which makes sense. I'm not sure where "toner" fits in that scale.
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Idk either Jeff if there is really a difference. Cabbot puts toner at the bottom of the list of transparencies. I tried to lure Ric into this discussion last time, thought he might could explain.

There does seem to be a difference comparing the products in the field. They separate... differently. It seems like with semi trans it's the pigment that settles out of it, and with toner it seems to be some other solid.

So when you open a can of semi trans after its been sitting a while, the color is not homogenous, its layered through the container with the darker on top usually. Where as toner settles in the bottom of the container and it remains more homogeneous in color.
 
Discussion starter · #23 · (Edited)
Thanks for the help and info. Based on information here, I think I'm leaning toward the second guy - even though he rolls the floor.

He seems to have provided the most accurate information that is similar to what people here recommend.

My only issue is picking a color tone - I want a natural wood color, but not the yellow PT look - more of a true cedar type color. Anyone have pictures of decks with a similar Cabot Stain applied? Samples are hard to envision.

Maybe something similar to the below.
 

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#24 ·
I would research the Cabot and Flood products a little more. Most things i've read about both of these product is not good. hands down the best product available to Americans is TWP 100. Unfortunately, this product is not available in Canada os I went with a product called Sansin DEK which I can report after 2 years is holding up really well. it's a non flim forming penetrating stain that does not need to be stripped out but can simply be re-applied like the TWP products. Obviously the methodology of putting on the stain is important but choosing the right product is THE most important decision! My $.02.........
 
#26 ·
#28 ·
liljohnny said:
http://www.contractortalk.com/f50/cabot-deck-sealer-opinion-68446/

http://www.contractortalk.com/f8/cabot-stains-w-no-voc-over-old-cabots-55655/

http://www.contractortalk.com/f8/letter-cabot-32055/

Just saying, do your research...removing old stain from a deck is a sh***y job!
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Well, that's Cabot I guess, but not the Cabot product we're talking about here as far as I can tell. I didn't see much convincing there. There isn't any UV protection in a clear product, and no one is recommending the solid color products from any manufacturer. As far as I know, we're talking about the straight oil based translucent and semi-transparent products.
 
#29 ·
My experience with Cabbot transparent oil stains had been good. I was just checking on some decks done with it the other day.

The green deck in the first two pics was new PT lumber done with Cabbot semi-solid oil stain in May of 2012. These decks only get a few hours of sun each day, and are holding up well.

The second two pics are of a nine year old deck that was stripped and done with Cabbot Clear Solutions cedar color a little over a year before the pic was taken. This deck gets full afternoon sun.

The last pic of the red deck was taken two years after stripping and coating with Cabbot semi-trans oil stain. This deck gets full sun all day, and as you can see at the time of the pic it was ready for a wash and maintenance coat.

I have had premature failure with Cabbot acrylic solid decking stain.

These are all done with the original Cabbot oil which is still available in my area. I don't know about any newer low VOC formulations.

You will find that the amount of sun your deck gets has a dramatic effect on how often it needs maintained. Decks in full sun IME, get two years maximum.
 

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#31 ·
jeffnc said:
Well, photos can be deceiving, but that last "red" deck looks in pretty good condition to me.
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It's wearing well, doing what it's supposed to do.
The original color was a good bit darker, it has faded in the sun. This is the point that I try to do a maintenance coat before they get too bad.

This is a pic of the same deck, taken at the same time, but under a porch where it gets almost no sun. It still looks almost new.
 

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Discussion starter · #32 · (Edited)
So this above picture is Cabot after 2 years?

My deck is 100% sun almost all day - so it looks like every other year for me. Does it need to be sanded each re-coat or only the very first time when the wood is new?

How do I know if the Cabot used is the "original formula" or new VOC stuff?
 
#33 ·
I'll post the pics again so you can compare.

Both decks are on the same house, done at the same time (2yrs) with the same Cabbot stain. The first pic is under a covered porch and gets very little direct sunlight. The second two pics are an area of the deck that is exposed to direct sunlight all day.

Yes, it makes a big difference how much sun a deck gets. You can see the fading that has occurred on the exposed deck v/s the covered one.
 

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#34 ·
Personally and from experience, brushing on is the best way to work the stain/sealer into the wood. Every other year I'd put Cabot Clear Solutions on my deck and fence. It darkens the wood, but doesn't stain it. I'd go with the guy that uses Cabot and brushes.

I'm sure both of them are fine and a 1 yr. warranty is silly on something like this, because that's about how long any product will start to age a bit.

Stain will eventually wear and look like it needs redone more frequently than something like a clear solution or sealer. Sealers are more transparent and they've been said not to protect the wood quite as nicely as a stain would. however....

ANY wood that sits outside and any product that does the same is going to age, wear, and need a considerable amount of upkeep over the lifetime of the deck. That's why some people never want wood decks. If you can do it yourself, you'll save quite a bit of money, because you'll just need a nice day, a brush and some product....no labor charge
 
#35 ·
adgjqetuo said:
So this above picture is Cabot after 2 years?

My deck is 100% sun almost all day - so it looks like every other year for me. Does it need to be sanded each re-coat or only the very first time when the wood is new?

How do I know if the Cabot used is the "original formula" or new VOC stuff?
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It shouldn't need sanding every time. A good cleaning including scrubbing is usually sufficient for the first few maintenance coats.

If the Cabbot in your area has been reformulated, it will likely say 'Low VOC' on the label.
 
#37 ·
adgjqetuo said:
I found this site online - is this a good guide?

http://www.deckstainhelp.com/category/deck-product-reviews/deck-stain-reviews/

It seems Flood rated slightly higher than Cabot? I think Flood is available at Lowes?
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Yeah, that looks like a pretty good review site to me.

The Flood that is reviewed in the article is a kind I have not seen yet. They reviewed the CWF-UV5 Oil, sounds interesting. I am only familiar with the regular CWF-UV.

Maybe Gymschu has used this new formulation, I know he uses CWF a lot.

http://www.flood.com/pdf/app-instructions-03.pdf
 
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