[jimn]

It’s perfectly legal, where I live, to do electrical work in my own house where which I occupy (owner occupied) . Here is the caveat, it obviously has to be done according to local and NEC code. It also has to be permitted and inspected . Generally I have found that the inspections when the inspector is inspecting work by electricians they know and trust are pretty quick and straightforward. However when inspecting DIY jobs they get pretty picky so one must educate themselves pretty thoroughly on the codes and make sure the permit application is complete and detailed ( that I know from personal experience). It is distinctly illegal for me to do any electrical work in multi-family (even a duplex where half is owner occupied), rental or commercial property. The construction trades around me have all the work they can handle so even scheduling one can be an issue and you won’t get any breaks on price. The expenses for tradesman have also gone up a lot. Price of trucks alone are pretty insane as well as insurance, supplies, labor etc. Trying to find a licensed helper probably won’t work. If they are licensed ,even if retired, once they supervise or touch work they own it and they own the liability if something goes wrong.

 

[John Snow]

The sticker shock on most licensed electricians is real, and no one here has assuaged that phenomenon when they rush to justify it without being clear as to, well, what justifies it.

I am arguing it and here is the justification. You seem to think an electrician should be cheaper because you think you can do it yourself. Yet you still have not answered what a “master flooring mechanic” charges for one hour of work. I bet it is very close to what an electrician charges. What does a plumber charge an hour. Or an appliance repair tech?

And let’s compare these trades.

What kind of schooling, training and exams are there to become a master flooring mechanic? Is it an actual certification? Is the certification state wide or a national certification? Are there annual fees for this certification? Or can anyone legally call themselves a “master flooring mechanic” and just open their own business? What are your annual insurance costs to run that business? If you make a mistake, can the customer and or the neighbours die?

Now compare that to an electrician who (depending on location) needs to take 5 years of training. This includes about 1000 hours in class training and 5000 to 8000 hours on the job training to then get the chance to take the exam. After successfully passing the exam, if you want to be an electrical contractor, you need another 3 to 5 years working as an electrician to take another exam to get the masters licence. So now you have annual license fees for your journeyman ticket, your masters license and your contracting license. Then you have insurance. The Annual Insurance for an electrical contractor is more than double any other trade due to not only the danger for the workers, but mainly due to the safety of the customers.

Make the same comparison for other trades and then compare their hourly rates. You will see that an electrical contractor has the highest expenses and required training, but not the highest hourly wage.

 

[Monkeybizness]

I would look to see whether the scope of the work falls under work you can legally do yourself. Where I live that has to be in the primary residence. Dwellings like ADUs that I am not occupying do not qualify. I am not sure what they consider separate workshops or garages. Each locality may be different. I don't know how many times I heard advice from people "Do you have any friends or family who are electricians?" I wish. I wish I had a brother-in-law who was an electrician, and another who is a plumber.

To give some perspective, I recently went through this. Now I had to find an extra $10K in my budget. I paid an excavator $1,500 to dig a 110' electrical trench. I paid an electrician $3K to put conduit and run service cables in the conduit to my garage, install the ground rods, the new meter box and connect to my new panel that I bought myself thinking I could continue the work inside. So already paid $4,500 just to get new service to the garage. Found out I can't do the electrical on the garage. Got a quote from the electrician to finish the rest. $10K. Which is just about exactly what I thought it would be and what I was hoping to save besides the cost of materials. Really what I saved in electrical I was hoping to pay drywall guys to put up all the drywall and mudding. I can't stand doing drywall.

Anyway, what I learned. Trade jobs costs money. My electrician isn't adorned in gold jewelry. He seems to be making a decent living but not extravagant. I just have to suck it up and drive on.

This is my primary residence. I work for an excavation company and my boss is loaning me the equipment (excavator and skid steer, along with his help) to grade and dig the trenches along with foundations for the sheds/garage.

I expect to pay someone for the heavy duty wiring to the garage/workshop and to relocate the main power box to put in French doors to the backyard, and I'll pay them a reasonably fair wage for it.

I just don't see why I'd have to put in the outlay for a licensed electrician for those items, such as the 90 feet of conduit(2 miles of 3", 2", and 1" is a lot more than the 90 feet of two inch I'll need to complete that task), that I have a great deal of experience in installing and the basic residential wiring that would get the inspectors sign off regardless of who did it.

 

[MTVhike]

Talk to your town building inspector (AHJ?). Ask him what he needs.

 

[a&b home]

Who is saying that you need licensed electrician?
I do electrical on my house and my customers all the time and get a third party inspection if needed.
Some of the bigger towns and cities around here do require a licensed electrician.
Some of the towns i am legal to do electrical.

 

[rjniles]

This horse is dead, we should stop beating it.

 

[jayhanig]

I am comfortable working with 110 stuff. like replacing switches and receptacles. I absolutely do not fool with anything that has a "2" in its classification, such as 220 or 240. Some jobs are just worth paying someone who really knows what he's doing to do.

Yesterday, I had an electrician come out and run 240v power from my workshop in the back of the house to an outlet that he installed in one side of my garage in the front of my house, so I could occasionally weld. He did a spiffy job as far as I am concerned. Surface mount conduit, since we are talking about a garage and not my living room.

He was able to stuff a 30 amp breaker into a sub box while preserving the 20 amp breaker for my three tools that use 220v (compressor, bandsaw, and jointer, which are always used one at a time). The wire he used is rated for up to 50 amps so if I end up tripping the breaker when I start actually welding, we have options.

$750... more than I wanted to pay but he's a local guy, well recommended, and will stand behind his work. "Buy once and cry once", I always say.

 

[afjes2015]

.

I am comfortable working with 110 stuff. like replacing switches and receptacles. I absolutely do not fool with anything that has a "2" in its classification, such as 220 or 240. Some jobs are just worth paying someone who really knows what he's doing to do.

It's no longer 220 it is 240volts.
It's no longer 110 it is 120volts.

Also, 120volts can be just as dangerous as 240volts by the way. A big misconception that DIYers have thinking I can "piddle around" with 120volts but when it comes to 240volts I will call an electrician.

He was able to stuff a 30 amp breaker into a sub box while preserving the 20 amp breaker for my three tools that use 220v (compressor, bandsaw, and jointer, which are always used one at a time). The wire he used is rated for up to 50 amps so if I end up tripping the breaker when I start actually welding, we have options.

Exactly what do you mean by "stuff a 30amp breaker into a sub box"? If he used 6 gauge wire (rated for 50amps) and hooked it to a 30amp two pole breaker you can still only use 30amps (breaker determines the max draw). Wondering why he went with 6 gauge for a 30amp breaker? The 30amp breaker is the deadline of what you pull on that circuit. If he used a 30amp breaker for your welder and 6 gauge wire what did the welder require I am wondering?

 

[eric_mainediy]

Exactly what do you mean by "stuff a 30amp breaker into a sub box"? If he used 6 gauge wire (rated for 50amps) and hooked it to a 30amp two pole breaker you can still only use 30amps (breaker determines the max draw). Wondering why he went with 6 gauge for a 30amp breaker? The 30amp breaker is the deadline of what you pull on that circuit. If he used a 30amp breaker for your welder and 6 gauge wire what did the welder require I am wondering?

I thought he meant he put in 6 gauge wire so that someday in the future if he wanted 50A service that could be provided by changing the breaker.

 

[ajaye]

I don't mind paying an unfair price, I just want someone competent and certification is no guarantee.

I had a thread on her a while ago, showed some pictures of a "CERT" electrician and on recommendation, who according to my peers (on here) said they ran the cable like pants and (like a snake) and didn't run it properly, as it was close to a water pipe, (I forget the exact details)

Some of the comments on the pics were, "shocking" & "amazed"

The trades are still slammed with all the work they can handle. The days of getting a fair price are long gone.

 

[afjes2015]

I thought he meant he put in 6 gauge wire so that someday in the future if he wanted 50A service that could be provided by changing the breaker.

My concern would be:
#1 - If the 30 amp breaker (we don't know brand or model) is rated/will fit for a 6 gauge without having to trim some strands off the end of the wire/conductor which is not good as you reduce the rating when this is done.
#2 - Since conduit was used (I would think individual wires were used) what size is the ground wire he used then?

 

[Monkeybizness]

When I was doing floors, we regularly had to hook up our 220 sander in the main box(it was 220 back then) with alligator clip cables...did so nearly every day for five years straight.

One day we were working on the private home of one of the development superintendents, who was a master electrician.

We had always anchored our cable on a pipe or other place in order to not have all the wire weight on the clips so they could be isolated on both of the poles, which were, if you know your boxes, one on top of the other.

He had wanted to hook up our sander and the other equipment to be ready for us when we came in and had started doing so when we came into the basement, where he was working...he told us to go ahead and start laying out the floor. So I was on the second row when a sudden flash of light came from the box and he was standing there with a surprised look on his face.

As he had hooked up the second cable, the untethered weight of the first cable had caused it to drop between the poles, giving us our light show.

He was lucky that it only signed the fingers that were holding the clip because both clips had been instantly vaporized(yes, vaporized, as in instantly gone).

He eventually admitted that he had forgotten the part about tethering the cable above the box to take the weight off...was a pretty scary situation at a time and we were lucky he was standing on a box of wood at the time.

He was certified and had the license. Just saying

 

[jayhanig]

I thought he meant he put in 6 gauge wire so that someday in the future if he wanted 50A service that could be provided by changing the breaker.

That would be correct. That 30 amp

.



It's no longer 220 it is 240volts.
It's no longer 110 it is 120volts.

Also, 120volts can be just as dangerous as 240volts by the way. A big misconception that DIYers have thinking I can "piddle around" with 120volts but when it comes to 240volts I will call an electrician.



Exactly what do you mean by "stuff a 30amp breaker into a sub box"? If he used 6 gauge wire (rated for 50amps) and hooked it to a 30amp two pole breaker you can still only use 30amps (breaker determines the max draw). Wondering why he went with 6 gauge for a 30amp breaker? The 30amp breaker is the deadline of what you pull on that circuit. If he used a 30amp breaker for your welder and 6 gauge wire what did the welder require I am wondering?

breaker could ultimately be replaced with as much as a 50 amp breaker if need be.

I have 200 amps of service coming from the utility. My main breaker box is on the 2nd floor of my house. The 3rd floor heat pump and air handler breakers are in it. Down on the ground floor, there are two sub boxes. Sub box #1 has 100 amps coming in with 60 amps going to the 2nd floor air handler and also to sub box #2. Sub box #2 had a 20 amp 120/240 double breaker that provided power for my bandsaw, jointer, and air compressor, which were all run one at a time; never simultaneously. Never had a problem with popping breakers.

Now, were there was that double 120/240 20 amp breaker, the electrician installed a "compound" breaker (my phrase, don't know its official name). In the space where there once was 20 amps, there now are 20 AND 30 amps, separate but together, if that makes any sense.

Pictures provide a better explanation than I can.

The original breaker in sub box #2:

Sub box #1

And now, sub box #2. The breaker on the top left is the new "compound" breaker.

Does that clear it up?

 

[Thom Paine]

OP is one funny guy.
Self aggrandizement never ending!
'Zactly like the last time.... Asking for help, and demeaning the PROs by saying
"Any Monkey can do it" hahaahhhahah.... but him!

 

[jayhanig]

My concern would be:

#2 - Since conduit was used (I would think individual wires were used) what size is the ground wire he used then?

Three discrete wires were run through the conduit. I watched him do it. I couldn't say what size. I only know the electrician said they could handle 50 amps if we found the original welder was too much for the breaker he did install.

 

[jayhanig]

It's no longer 220 it is 240volts.
It's no longer 110 it is 120volts.

what did the welder require I am wondering?

Hey, I'm getting old. I'll be 70 next year. Force of habit. As for the welder's requirements, here's the specs. It never came right out and said "install a 30 amp breaker":

 

[Monkeybizness]

OP is one funny guy.
Self aggrandizement never ending!
'Zactly like the last time.... Asking for help, and demeaning the PROs by saying
"Any Monkey can do it" hahaahhhahah.... but him!

I'm kinda a big deal...People know me...

Actually that wasn't self aggrandizing...it was a true story. I'm not demeaning those pros who actually earned their certification, but these days it's hard to pick them out of the paper mill crowd...too many people getting pencil whipped certifications these days...

 

[betelgeuse]

When I was doing floors, we regularly had to hook up our 220 sander in the main box(it was 220 back then)

It's been 240 since the "Rural Electrification Act" standardized the voltages in the 1930s.
It was as wrong when you hooked up your sander and it's wrong now.

 

[Monkeybizness]

It's been 240 since the "Rural Electrification Act" standardized the voltages in the 1930s.
It was as wrong when you hooked up your sander and it's wrong now.

Then why has everyone, including electricians, called it 110 and 220 since I've been alive(1976)?

 

[Dave Ruth]

logic

if a master at one trade, how is someone saving money by doing grunt work at another trade? why not spend that time at trade you have mastered, and pay laborer less per hour to do the grunt work?

supply and demand

a product is worth what someone will pay for it, this product being the electrical work. as an electrician, i'd rather take a job that pays more instead of a job that pays less.