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@Monkeybizness

Sounds like you have it all under control ; Not sure why you are here getting help from Pros.

With all your experience and knowledge, why do you need to find
a licensed Electrician?

Go take the test, pass it, and improve your future opportunities.

Good fortune with your project.

It's not good form to demean the value of those from whom you need assistance.
 
All we are doing is giving you a heads up (alert) that very very few electricians will pick up where you left off no matter what part of the job you did or what materials you purchased. If you feel that intent on starting the job/s and or purchasing any of the materials is what you want to do and that you should be able to do this and an electrician should finish your work then go ahead and do it. We can't stop you. All we can do is give you a "heads-up" that doing this could/woulld more than likely give you more of a headache then it is worth. Make a few phone calls to electricians. Explain what you want to do in the way of labor and or material purchases and hear from them.

I had a guy call me to come look at his workshop he was wiring. It was in a barn (no hay or livestock in it). He had prewired (ran wire/romex) around the entire shop, installed metal boxes, bought receptacles and other materials. I did not know until I got there that he ran everything in the way of wire, installed the boxes, attempted to install the receptacles etc. I did not know he even bought anything. I got there and took one look and almost fell over. First mistake he made was listening to the guy in the electrical department at HDepot (who was probably from the paint department covering for the electrical guy on lunch break). The HDepot guy talked him into buying 10/2 Romex, 40amp (2 pole) breaker, handy boxes and cheap crap receptacles. The HDepot guy told him the "thicker" wire will handle 600 volts so he could plug in as much of his tools and run them all at once if he wanted to. His problem was getting the 10/2 to connect to the crappy 15amp receptacles that he bought because the handy boxes were way too small etc etc etc. He also draped the Romex so much of it was "subject to damage". Not to mention he was told that the 40amp breaker would prevent the circuit from tripping more often. I am not going to go into detail explainng why this was a dissaster but any experienced electrician reasding this would know immediately this was a "F-Up" beyond proportion. He argued with me that he did not want to remove any of it and wanted to use the parts he already bought. I politely told him that I would put pencil/to paper and call him with an estimate because he would not take no for an answer. Needless to say I turned the job down because in my estimate I included all new parts/wire breakers everything, my labor to remove everything he already installed!! He did not like that. Warning to any DIYer reading this above paragraph in the future - this is not the way to do a project like this!! Do not follow this!!
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
All we are doing is giving you a heads up (alert) that very very few electricians will pick up where you left off no matter what part of the job you did or what materials you purchased. If you feel that intent on starting the job/s and or purchasing any of the materials is what you want to do and that you should be able to do this and an electrician should finish your work then go ahead and do it. We can't stop you. All we can do is give you a "heads-up" that doing this could/woulld more than likely give you more of a headache then it is worth. Make a few phone calls to electricians. Explain what you want to do in the way of labor and or material purchases and hear from them.

I had a guy call me to come look at his workshop he was wiring. It was in a barn (no hay or livestock in it). He had prewired (ran wire/romex) around the entire shop, installed metal boxes, bought receptacles and other materials. I did not know until I got there that he ran everything in the way of wire, installed the boxes, attempted to install the receptacles etc. I did not know he even bought anything. I got there and took one look and almost fell over. First mistake he made was listening to the guy in the electrical department at HDepot (who was probably from the paint department covering for the electrical guy on lunch break). The HDepot guy talked him into buying 10/2 Romex, 40amp (2 pole) breaker, handy boxes and cheap crap receptacles. The HDepot guy told him the "thicker" wire will handle 600 volts so he could plug in as much of his tools and run them all at once if he wanted to. His problem was getting the 10/2 to connect to the crappy 15amp receptacles that he bought because the handy boxes were way too small etc etc etc. He also draped the Romex so much of it was "subject to damage". Not to mention he was told that the 40amp breaker would prevent the circuit from tripping more often. I am not going to go into detail explainng why this was a dissaster but any experienced electrician reasding this would know immediately this was a "F-Up" beyond proportion. He argued with me that he did not want to remove any of it and wanted to use the parts he already bought. I politely told him that I would put pencil/to paper and call him with an estimate because he would not take no for an answer. Needless to say I turned the job down because in my estimate I included all new parts/wire breakers everything, my labor to remove everything he already installed!! He did not like that. Warning to any DIYer reading this above paragraph in the future - this is not the way to do a project like this!! Do not follow this!!
That's exactly what I am talking about...I was specifically talking about bringing an electrician in BEFORE the project started for ADVICE on what materials to get, verification that the right assembly of those materials is being made, and then paying them to handle those parts of the job that aren't basically monkey work, such as relocating the main breaker box and running the heavy circuit to the future garage...
 
That's exactly what I am talking about...I was specifically talking about bringing an electrician in BEFORE the project started for ADVICE on what materials to get, verification that the right assembly of those materials is being made, and then paying them to handle those parts of the job that aren't basically monkey work, such as relocating the main breaker box and running the heavy circuit to the future garage...
Good luck finding an electrician willing to do that. And realistically, how much money are you expecting to save?

Here in Canada what you are wanting to do would be illegal. Only a registered apprentice or electrician can do electrical work.

Yes a home owner can take out a permit and do the work in their own home but that is different. With a home owner permit, the work must be completed by the home owner and they can not hire anyone to do portions of the work for them other than getting help from direct family members.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
Please. There is no "monkey work" in the trades. There is the option of keeping your posts a "draft" while you reflect.
There is always monkey work in the trades...in hardwood flooring you have the "cut b*tch" who goes back and forth to the chop saw to make end cuts. When I did part time work for a stonemason on the side I spent a lot of time as the mud mixer and stone setter, working with electricians and being the big guy you'll do a lot of wire-pulling and joining conduit. They'll also stick you with the fire caulking, which is messy and annoying, but the price you pay for being the new guy. In excavating and grading, there's always the guy holding the shovel who has to get the spots the excavator can't go, such as around...egads...high voltage...

I like my posts very much tyvm. They're honest and based upon a genuine desire to learn and accomplish something. Isn't that what we are here for, and since the site literally has the word DIY in it, why wouldn't I desire a way to get it done myself if possible?

Maybe you should reflect upon the accuracy of your criticisms before you post...they do look an awful lot like trolling...just saying.
 
I think from the point of view of the homeowner, the idea of doing all the grunt work while the licensed electrician supervises sounds like a good idea. In theory, one would think that doing this would knock off some of the cost of labor, which is a good thing, for the homeowner. However, from the point of view of the license holder, who is taking ALL of the risk associated with letting a homeowner work under his license, it sounds like a huge liability (one that virtually no electrician would be willing to take on). And if you can find the one electrician who might, I would have a lot of questions about his integrity.

I’ve worked in PV for the past 8 years, mostly commercial but some residential, and the customer came up to me trying to make a deal such as “I’ll install the panels and wire them to the inverters (you can even watch me), and you just land the wires on the AC side, and then we can knock of some of your labor costs”…..I would walk off the site.
 
Discussion starter · #29 · (Edited)
Here is an example of what I see as the problem:

A local radio ad has a company offering a "sale" in which they will replace an outlet for $78 per outlet and they are acting as if that is cheap.

I want to replace two standard switches in my living room and kitchen with dimmers. By their twisted logic I should be happy with paying $160+ after taxes and fees for what is essentially ten minutes worth of work that I could easily and safely do myself. Extrapolated over time that's over $800/hr.

I don't even pay lawyers that much money, and I definitely don't make nearly that much at work as a professional myself dealing with situations that are every bit as dangerous. Why should I have to sacrifice nearly a week's wages for simple tasks that I could do myself? They are called "trades" for a reason, after all. Electricians may play this magical wizard hocus pocus but they eat, sh.t and fart like the rest of us.

I have seen licensed electricians in the past do some really scary stuff on the job in the many developments I worked for doing hardwood flooring and you'll have to excuse me if I'm not so trusting in the idea that the juice is worth the squeeze in hiring them.
 
If you can find an electrician to come to your house and replace 2 switches with dimmers, you better jump all over that deal.
 
Here is an example of what I see as the problem:

A local radio ad has a company offering a "sale" in which they will replace an outlet for $78 per outlet and they are acting as if that is cheap.

I want to replace two standard switches in my living room and kitchen with dimmers. By their twisted logic I should be happy with paying $160+ after taxes and fees for what is essentially ten minutes worth of work that I could easily and safely do myself. Extrapolated over time that's over $800/hr.

I don't even pay lawyers that much money, and I definitely don't make nearly that much at work as a professional myself dealing with situations that are every bit as dangerous. Why should I have to sacrifice nearly a week's wages for simple tasks that I could do myself?

I have seen licensed electricians in the past do some really scary stuff on the job in the many developments I worked for doing hardwood flooring and you'll have to excuse me if I'm not so trusting in the idea that the juice is worth the squeeze in hiring them.
How much do you think an electrician should charge to drive to your house in a truck filled with tools and supplies to do 1 hour of work?

And then, how much do you think a floor repair guy should charge to do the same?
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
How much do you think an electrician should charge to drive to your house in a truck filled with tools and supplies to do 1 hour of work?

And then, how much do you think a floor repair guy should charge to do the same?
I'm not saying they should do that...most tradesmen have a minimum charge to come out, which is expected. I was just using a single task as an example. I'm just saying that a small punch list worth of work that would take a few hours at most shouldn't be turned into an excuse to drop a $2k+ bill on someone for what is basic electrical work.

And what if that floor guy is repairing a 1600's mansion with the original hemlock pine floors, which were a few of the jobs I did while working in flooring. That takes skill, and if you screw it up, you can't go down to the Home Depot to get original wood...

You're acting as if the electricians sweat and knowledge should trump that of a master flooring mechanic...that's an elitist attitude which doesn't take into consideration that most people in the trades earn their skills through hard work and should be REASONABLY rewarded...

Having a monopoly through licensure is not reasonable.
 
I'm not saying they should do that...most tradesmen have a minimum charge to come out, which is expected. I was just using a single task as an example. I'm just saying that a small punch list worth of work that would take a few hours at most shouldn't be turned into an excuse to drop a $2k+ bill on someone for what is basic electrical work.
You keep saying it’s so easy and basic. Then why not just do it all yourself?
 
In some places you can do your own electrical work and get it inspected by a third party inspector or the town .As long as the work passes inspection the insurance co should be good with that.
 
Because, even though I know what I'm doing, the insurance company would have a conniption. They care about pieces of paper even if those pieces of paper aren't properly earned.
Then take out a home owner permit. Can you not do that where you are? Pretty rare that a home owner can not do work in their own home.
 
I'm not saying they should do that...most tradesmen have a minimum charge to come out, which is expected. I was just using a single task as an example. I'm just saying that a small punch list worth of work that would take a few hours at most shouldn't be turned into an excuse to drop a $2k+ bill on someone for what is basic electrical work.

And what if that floor guy is repairing a 1600's mansion with the original hemlock pine floors, which were a few of the jobs I did while working in flooring. That takes skill, and if you screw it up, you can't go down to the Home Depot to get original wood...

You're acting as if the electricians sweat and knowledge should trump that of a master flooring mechanic...that's an elitist attitude which doesn't take into consideration that most people in the trades earn their skills through hard work and should be REASONABLY rewarded...

Having a monopoly through licensure is not reasonable.
Not being an elitist. I honestly want to know how much difference, if any, there would be between getting a lowly monkey electrician to do one hours work at your house compared to a “master flooring mechanic” doing one hours work at mine.
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
T
In some places you can do your own electrical work and get it inspected by a third party inspector or the town .As long as the work passes inspection the insurance co should be good with that.
Thank you...it only took three pages of naysaying to finally get a direct answer...I'm just trying to make sure the insurance company doesn't go nuts because I install my own doorbell camera and the occasional electrical outlet for odds and ends...

Everyone seems to want to put an aura around electrical work as if it's some kind of magic being manipulated by crackpot wizards...I've been around it most of my life without getting any certification in it, I install all of my own vehicle electrical stuff with no issues and have actually worked for two years in the field doing the "monkey work" that some claim doesn't exist.

Like the table saw or chop saw, I have a healthy respect for the blade, and so I'm not going to do anything I don't absolutely know how to do...I have an appointment with one of the building inspectors for the county permitting office next weekend, so he should be able to clarify what I can and can't do by myself anyway. I was just looking for advanced knowledge so I can, as always, be prepared to tackle the task at hand.

The sticker shock on most licensed electricians is real, and no one here has assuaged that phenomenon when they rush to justify it without being clear as to, well, what justifies it.

Yeah, you might scare some guy with a Prius and a sad government job into running back to the man behind the curtain, but I've been on the ground, sometimes quite literally when driving grounding rods with a hammer drill, and I've dealt with most the things involved. I just recognize my limits and I'm not going to do hot work such as moving the box myself or working with higher voltages than your standard 110/220 system. I can run wire, conduit, and wire boxes all day long, and I have done that professionally. I just prefer a second set of eyes to go over everything without charging me as if they did it all themselves, which was actually one of your comments...
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
It d
Not being an elitist. I honestly want to know how much difference, if any, there would be between getting a lowly monkey electrician to do one hours work at your house compared to a “master flooring mechanic” doing one hours work at mine.
In both cases, it would depend upon the job involved...as the master flooring mechanic, are you, as the home owner asking me to install shoe molding, which is a simple job not requiring a lot of skill, or are you requiring me to blend in the wood on a half rotted 17th century mansion, which requires a lot of skill and, hopefully a lot of donor wood from closets in the house.

If I'm sourcing that donor wood from another house, for example, I'd have to find that exact species with exactly the same amount of wear. I'd also have to do moisture readings, sand some samples to guarantee the match and hope, with all the luck involved, I can get enough of it together to put it all in without any of it cracking due to the age and condition. I'd also have to take into account what kind of newer systems you're installing that would affect the floors,such as central air in a house that went four hundred years without it.

This isn't even talking about if you want it authentically installed with the original cut nails, and other accoutrements, of course... I've worked two historical sites that absolutely required it.

That's the problem here. I'm not talking about the kind of tasks that involve a master electrician. I'm talking about things an apprentice gets tasked with on punch lists. I've talked to two electricians so far,both of whom tried to jargon the price up on apprentice work, not knowing that I understood their jargon.
 
I would look to see whether the scope of the work falls under work you can legally do yourself. Where I live that has to be in the primary residence. Dwellings like ADUs that I am not occupying do not qualify. I am not sure what they consider separate workshops or garages. Each locality may be different. I don't know how many times I heard advice from people "Do you have any friends or family who are electricians?" I wish. I wish I had a brother-in-law who was an electrician, and another who is a plumber.

To give some perspective, I recently went through this. Now I had to find an extra $10K in my budget. I paid an excavator $1,500 to dig a 110' electrical trench. I paid an electrician $3K to put conduit and run service cables in the conduit to my garage, install the ground rods, the new meter box and connect to my new panel that I bought myself thinking I could continue the work inside. So already paid $4,500 just to get new service to the garage. Found out I can't do the electrical on the garage. Got a quote from the electrician to finish the rest. $10K. Which is just about exactly what I thought it would be and what I was hoping to save besides the cost of materials. Really what I saved in electrical I was hoping to pay drywall guys to put up all the drywall and mudding. I can't stand doing drywall.

Anyway, what I learned. Trade jobs costs money. My electrician isn't adorned in gold jewelry. He seems to be making a decent living but not extravagant. I just have to suck it up and drive on.
 
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