[A Little Short]

I have the cable cutter and can use it to cut the PVC conduit. However the challenge I have is how to cut the 1/4" thick sleeve outside the PVC conduit. I need to cut the sleeve lower then cut the PVC higher to have enough room to connect to a PVC fitting, and the two sleeved conduits side by side with very little room in between makes it even more difficult.

I would try it on the sleeve. If it doesn't cut it, then you might try an oscillator tool with a fine blade. Go slow and only cutting through what you need.

 

[J. V.]

That hand hole box is a great idea. Actually I believe they do not have a bottom, so you do not need to remove the old box or connections. Just slide it over it all.
These are boxes from a supply house $$$.
You may can get something similar to sprinkler/water cut-off boxes at a big box store.

No bottom. You want it to drain or at least drain some. My suggestion is to remove the existing box and leave the stubs. Then just set the hand hole over everything at grade. You then make all the connections with approved wire nuts for wet locations. Personally I use regular wire nuts and leave them vertical. Some use silicone to seal them. I don't.
I would stay away from hand holes not listed for electrical use.

Are you saying I can just put this thing around what I have? The 120V connections are just made inside this thing without the need to be within a weatherproof enclosure of some sort? it just seems so "out in the open".
or you mean replace the junction boxes but put one of these outside it for extra insurance?

Electrical hand holes are designed for this purpose. The connections are made inside it so they are not "out in the open". I recommend you remove the existing box or boxes completely. I would also clean up the stub ups. If they are PVC they require no extra protection as far as bushings.
This method is a tried and true solution. It is also used in new installations as well. So fear not. Except for cost.......lol

I use this to cut PVC with wires in it. You can get right down to the ground and use this. You start out slow, pulling with enough pressure to start the cable in the conduit. Then you can speed up. Just be careful after it cuts trough the conduit and don't get into the wires.

View attachment 738479
It's basically aircraft cable with rubber grips/handles. Also it's the same thing that people use to cut horns off cattle or tusks out of hogs.

Before those were well know in the industry, we used nylon string. Cuts through like butter. Safe for the wires as well.

 

[miamicuse]

I took a quick look and it seems these electrical hand holds are fairly large boxes 36"X24" or 28"X20" with depths over 14". Here is one such web site I looked at for their offerings.

Do they come in smaller and shallower ones? Like some said I have seen sprinkler valve boxes they are smaller but those are for plumbing valves or low voltage sprinkler manifolds and not 120V electric right?

also, if I use such a box, are all connections designed to come up from below grade to be spliced? Can I have say one connection to a device above grade and exit through the side of the box? Can I drill a KO hole on it's side or does it have to below grade in order to exit the box?

 

[Elmer-Dallas Texas]

Not expensive at all depending on what you purchase and where.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/NDS-115TBC-14-x-19-x-6-Standard-Series-Irrigation-Control-Valve-Tapered-Extension-Box-Black-Box-Green-Cover?utm_source=google_ad&utm_medium=Shopping_withoutdata&utm_campaign=Shopping_Without_PLTV_data&gclid=Cj0KCQjwocShBhCOARIsAFVYq0iS6WuwfG5kOMBsXGjxvzuQn8QW0I8vPS6geGi8zrOD-bTQnLI-HGQaAtvSEALw_wcB

#7 post by SW Dweller links to smaller box that might be right size for you.

 

[J. V.]

I took a quick look and it seems these electrical hand holds are fairly large boxes 36"X24" or 28"X20" with depths over 14". Here is one such web site I looked at for their offerings.

Do they come in smaller and shallower ones? Like some said I have seen sprinkler valve boxes they are smaller but those are for plumbing valves or low voltage sprinkler manifolds and not 120V electric right?

also, if I use such a box, are all connections designed to come up from below grade to be spliced? Can I have say one connection to a device above grade and exit through the side of the box? Can I drill a KO hole on it's side or does it have to below grade in order to exit the box?

NEWHOUSE ELECTRIC 10 in. Round Electrical Splice Box 910 - The Home Depot

Round Electrical Splice Box is intended for outdoor ground applications. Offers a durable heavy duty and PVC construction.

www.homedepot.com

 

[betelgeuse]

No bottom....Then just set the hand hole over everything at grade

Bottomless boxes should have a layer of about 4" of pea gravel beneath them, and 4" to a level of 2" up the sides for drainage.

 

[J. V.]

Bottomless boxes should have a layer of about 4" of pea gravel beneath them, and 4" to a level of 2" up the sides for drainage.

"Should" is the keyword here. Of course it makes total sense, but I doubt there is any compliance issue. Even with gravel expect it to fill with water. Especially at grade. Every conduit, conduit body or enclosure outside is going to get wet.
I have a landscape handhole for a water spigot. It has gravel under it. It still gets full of water. We have clay here and thats the issue.

 

[miamicuse]

I made a bit more progress and would appreciate some further guidance.

Firstly, in order to do this hand hole thing I need to remove the existing badly corroded box, and there is no way to do that without undoing the existing connections inside the boxes. These connections were done with the blue wire nuts with silicone. So I took one apart and the ends of these conductors are all in this messy white gel. So, I assume with this gel coated, especially with stranded conductors, I have to cut and strip a new end, right? So if you use these silicone wire nuts each time you modify the connection you have to cut the conductors shorter and shorter? Are there other weatherproof connection methods that does not get this messy?

Secondly, I took all the connections apart and removed the boxes, and now I am trying to figure out how to make new connections with the hand hole. Here are two pictures with the boxes gone. In both pictures I labeled five conduits 1 2 3 4 5. Those are the five original connections. There was another one up top to a receptacle but that one I can easily add later.

Conduits 1 & 3 are security and intercom wires that was in one box. They will be completely abandoned as I will go wireless with that. That leaves conduits 2, 4, 5 to be spliced together.

My questions related to this are:

(2a) With the hand hole box surrounding all of these conduits, I can just make the connections with wire nuts inside this hand hole with no sealed bottom, just dirt (OK I will dig down a bit and fill in some pea gravel)? There is no need for me to cut out the existing PVC conduit's male adapters, or do any marine grade shrink wrapping or whatever to make it more weatherproof?

(2b) If you look at conduit #2, which is a liquid tight flex conduit that comes in higher than the other two conduits. If I put in say a 10" round hand hole box, that conduit #2 is going to be a problem. I do not have enough length to bend it down and back up, so is it OK to drill a KO hole on the side of the hand hole box for that conduit to enter? In other words, can I do something like this?

 

[miamicuse]

bumping this thread to see if someone can answer my previous post.

In summary,

(1) can I use the wire exposed copper ends if it was previous inside a silicone filled wire nut? the solid one looks OK once I wiped it clean, the stranded one I don't know there is no way to clean them completely so I think I will just cut it shorter and strip further back. It seems to me if you use these silicone nuts every time you take one apart to remake the connection you have to cut the wire shorter then it's not ideal. Is there another way to make a waterproof connection?
(2) Using a hand hole box can I drill a KO hole on the side to enter instead of all from the bottom as shown in the picture below?

Thank you!

 

[miamicuse]

One more question, instead of say a 10" hand hole box, what do you all think of a skinnier version like this that Arlington Industries calls GARD-N-POST:

Arlington | Gard-N-Post™

Do you need power, low-voltage, or lighting outdoors? Try our full line of code compliant, outdoor Gard-N-Post™ weatherproof posts and enclosures.

www.aifittings.com

They have various heights and options, but it looks like it is sort of a square hand hole box made to look like a post and there is a cover you can remove to install a receptacle or a light fixture on the top side are options.

 

[miamicuse]

@dcwired
@SW Dweller
@betelgeuse
@skyking1
@C'est Moi
@A Little Short
@J. V.
@Elmer-Dallas Texas
BUMP!

 

[skyking1]

If you can fit it all in there neatly then go for it.
That looks to be a real pain in the butt on a retrofit situation like you're doing. It's great for sweeping a couple three conduits in there that are all tied together for a purpose.

 

[C'est Moi]

Sure however that is above ground where the hand holes are flush with the grade. Certainly anyplace where the connection can be gotten to would be okay. If that is metal conduit you will have to have a bonding bushing on each conduit to insure that there is continuity between the 2 conduits.

 

[miamicuse]

If you can fit it all in there neatly then go for it.
That looks to be a real pain in the butt on a retrofit situation like you're doing. It's great for sweeping a couple three conduits in there that are all tied together for a purpose.

I have not tried it yet but it seems like I may be able to have the splices positioned higher off the ground, but the skinnier box which I assume is like a 4X4 may be a challenge to remove (to add a connection later) once set. A hand hole box I can remove the cover and do stuff, this post thing need to be completely off for any mods.

 

[miamicuse]

Sure however that is above ground where the hand holes are flush with the grade. Certainly anyplace where the connection can be gotten to would be okay. If that is metal conduit you will have to have a bonding bushing on each conduit to insure that there is continuity between the 2 conduits.

Got it.

About the hand hole being flushed with the grade. Is it OK to have the hand hole be partly buried and partly above grade? The HH I am thinking is the 10" round one which is 12" in height. I would like to go 6-7" in the ground and 5-6" above grade, because I don't think I can dig 12" all the way, there are some concrete spill over from the nearby concrete column about 7-8" down. Additionally, I would like to drill a hole on the side of the HH slightly above grade for a liquid tight conduit to enter. I can also raise the actual connections of all the wires in the above grade section right under the cover so the splices will be above grade minimizing the chance of them getting flooded. Is it OK to not set this HH box flushed with the grade and is it OK to drill a 1/2" KO hole on the side of these boxes?

 

[skyking1]

The post thing is good to set over 2 or 3 conduits that you swept up to the exact same height and close together, then you could work it through the hole like a regular J-box. It also gets those connections well above a damp location, the handhold does not do that.

 

[miamicuse]

The post thing is good to set over 2 or 3 conduits that you swept up to the exact same height and close together, then you could work it through the hole like a regular J-box. It also gets those connections well above a damp location, the handhold does not do that.

Yes that's what I realized and can't decide which one works better for me. It looks like the post gadget may work for me, have to do some careful measurements and download their CAD spec sheets to compare. The HH on the other hand can easily be used to make modifications to the wiring by just removing the lid at the top the post cannot and I question the stability of adding a receptacle up top of the post thing seems if someone yanks on the power cord it may pull the post loose.

 

[skyking1]

don't tie the cord on and it will pull out first.

 

[miamicuse]

Sure however that is above ground where the hand holes are flush with the grade. Certainly anyplace where the connection can be gotten to would be okay. If that is metal conduit you will have to have a bonding bushing on each conduit to insure that there is continuity between the 2 conduits.

The post thing is good to set over 2 or 3 conduits that you swept up to the exact same height and close together, then you could work it through the hole like a regular J-box. It also gets those connections well above a damp location, the handhold does not do that.

I got a small hand hole round box and did more excavation and this is as deep as I can get before running into concrete. Right now I have the box about 8" deep and 4" above grade. I also have concrete and bricks on the right side preventing me from centering the conduits in the middle of the box.

If not being completely flush with ground is OK then I am ready to put down say 4-6 inches of pea gravel inside to help with drainage.

Finally I still need to connect a liquid-tite connection that is coming in from the side instead of the bottom, I hope drilling a KO hole on the side of the box is OK for me to run that liquid-tite into the box.

 

[C'est Moi]

If you do a little digging you should be able to put a notch in the side near the bottom and run the flex into the handhole.