If the person that installed it, will not replace. Put a stop payment on it, and file a claim in Small Claims court if they will not follow your request. Hopefully you took names and pictures of the top.

If the top was installed properly, it should have never cracked. Call in another stone installer and have them take a look at it.

 

Take some photos so we can see what you're talking about.

 

These are the photos. The cracked point looks lit up in these photos because of the camera flash, obviously it's not that bright in real life.

 

i am not a granite/stone expert. but i have owned a few, and i learned a good amount about it.

it looks like you picked a fragile stone, cracks easily. from what i can see, looks normal and bound to happen. does it have a "mesh" glued to the bottom of the slab ?

 

Yes, it still does have the mesh. It may be a fragile stone, however the installer is also the one who cut the stone, and he never suggested at any point that I was running a risk, or that he couldn't guarantee his cut.

If he cracked it cutting it, or by installing it, it seems to me that he should be responsible unless we had a prior agreement that I would assume the risk.

Also, despite whatever the fragility of the granite is, this guy flat out denies that it is a crack at all, even though I can feel it with my fingernail. He insists to my face that it's just part of the stone coloring as though I'm an idiot.

This is literally 24 hours after the installation, it's not like I'm coming back a month afterwards with a new crack.

 

I only read the first post since I'm busy with something else right now, so maybe someone already has my idea.

Go to the fabricator and have them give you the sink part they cut off. Compare A with B.

Jaz

 

If the installer is the same person who did the cutting, what would I gain from seeing the sink part they cut off? If it's cracked, it cracked during the cutting; if it's not cracked, it means the counter piece cracked when they were installing it. It's on them either way, right?

 

123.... I think you are correct.

I am not a granite installer, but I've had alot of installations.

Fix'n is right... it is a fragile stone (mesh means it is a very fragile stone).

But regardless of that, initial installation should be a flat planed surface and it should not come with a relief crack (unless as you say you were warned and assumed that risk.)

I think the good news is that it is a beutiful stone... and it appears to me that the crack itself should not be an appearance issue as it appears consistant with the natural stones veining.

But it should be ground flat... which is an easy procedure done on site (with progressively finer diamond grinder stones).

I've had that same crack (at the thin sink cut out) several times. Fabricators/installers normally put an all thread bolt dadoed into the underside with counter ties like in a formica counter to streangthen that thin piece... but it is a weak point in a granite counter.

If I'm correct that the appearance is not bad, (depends on the granite patterning) I'd have them plane it down carefully AND make sure it is well supported along that thin piece surrounding the sink.

(I also would be mad at the BS that installer is giving you... but he's worried... as full replacement will likely give him a complete negative loss out of his pocket...assuming he is a small fabricator. He should have warned you of the stones fragility.)

Good luck

 

123.... I think you are correct.

I am not a granite installer, but I've had alot of installations.

Fix'n is right... it is a fragile stone (mesh means it is a very fragile stone).

But regardless of that, initial installation should be a flat planed surface and it should not come with a relief crack (unless as you say you were warned and assumed that risk.)

I think the good news is that it is a beutiful stone... and it appears to me that the crack itself should not be an appearance issue as it appears consistant with the natural stones veining.

But it should be ground flat... which is an easy procedure done on site (with progressively finer diamond grinder stones).

I've had that same crack (at the thin sink cut out) several times. Fabricators/installers normally put an all thread bolt dadoed into the underside with counter ties like in a formica counter to streangthen that thin piece... but it is a weak point in a granite counter.

If I'm correct that the appearance is not bad, (depends on the granite patterning) I'd have them plane it down carefully AND make sure it is well supported along that thin piece surrounding the sink.

(I also would be mad at the BS that installer is giving you... but he's worried... as full replacement will likely give him a complete negative loss out of his pocket...assuming he is a small fabricator. He should have warned you of the stones fragility.)

Good luck

The sink is attached to the bottom of the granite, and seems relatively flat. However, the granite only touches the cabinet top on three sides (The back, left, and right). In the front section, I can slide a couple playing cards between the granite and cabinet top.

Should it be flat with the front of the cabinet also, or just with the sink?

Thanks.

 

what MTN said.

also. there ARE fissures in stone that can be felt with a fingernail. but the stone is not cracked.

 

does the cabinet have a "tip out " ?

 

Yes. When I open it, that's were I can see the granite does not touch the cabinet top. No Shims between the cabinet top and the granite on any of the sides of the cabinet. It's only sitting on 4, 1x1 inch shim blocks on the cabinet's 4 corners. I can slide playing cards 3 thick the entire length - end to end - between the top of cabinet and the granite on all four sides until I hit the corners.

 

Looks like they mixed two versions of Granite, when I compared them to the stones at http://www.kitchen-design-ideas.org/granite-countertop-colors-gray.html

What does it state on your Bill of goods, for what name the Granite is that they installed? Also did you get any referrals to go and look at their previous projects, before they did this counter?

I am pretty picky when it came to putting in our Granite Counter for our Bath. We ended up going through six boxes of the color that we put in for our Bath Vanity, before we could find one that did not have bad looking veins or pockets when they ground the edge for the bowl opening.

 

It's actually all from the same slab of granite. The name is "Aspen White".

 

Is there plywood under it? We don't know the OP's location, but it would appear that which coast you are on determines how it's done.

East coast uses 1" thick granite.....West coast 3/4"

All of the installs on my house have 3/4" plywood as a base...the installer then used thinset as the membrane between the plywood and granite. (gives better support)

A co-worker has NO plywood. But talking to a couple of granite experts in my neighborhood, plywood is suggested.

 

I live in New England. There is no plywood buffer. Besides the four corners, the only things touching the granite are two pieces of wood on the left and right sides, jack bolted to support the weight of the sink.
Below are the photos of this:
(The last one shows one of the corner blocks)

 

Around my area.... the support (flatness/level of the cabinetry) is the responsibility of the owner (or his contractor/cabinet man). The granite fabricator/installer will aqpprove it or not.

3cm stone is installed on cabinet framing.... 2cm (with a built up lip or not) stone requires a plywood subcounter.

Some weak granites at 3cm require a subcounter.

 

It looks like a crack to me. It also look like it's just a single 3/4'? slab with no laminate edge at the front ( hence why you can see the gap between the bottom of the slab and front of cabinet ). If it had been a laminated front edge, it might have not cracked. The issue now is how he deals with the crack. If he is talented, he'll fill the crack with clean or even a slightly colored filler ( polyurethane fillers ), let it cure, then flat grind with the appropriate wheel and grits. You then would not feel it, and if properly color matched and filled, not even see it unless you really look hard for it on inspection. The other issue is support. When I did my top, I did solid 3/4 plywood with 1x2 bracing underneath going front to back, especially under the sink area where the cut out pretty much get rid of most of the support for slab and sink. I then set the slab in 100% silicone adhesive, paying attention to make sure the seams and area at sink is has good coverage.

 

The only silicone, or adhesive of any kind the granite installer used for mine is between the sink and the granite. Seeing how well supported your under portion is compared to the job this buffoon did on mine makes my blood boil.

 

Besides those points, the granite isn't touching any part of the cabinet top.

 

I have seen few slabs crack, even with a laminated front edge where you gain a bit of strength. So when it came to my kitchen, my cabinet were RTA type ( read to assemble ), and I was not impressed with how sturdy the basic box was, so I reinforced them and they are now very stout. Part of the reinforcing process was using 1x2 hardwood runners running front to back, and screwing those into the rear ledge board and the plywood deck above. This also prevents the plywood deck from bucking upward, due to temperature differential. When I use to do floated tile top, I would make sub deck out of 1x6 pine screwed front to back, spaced about 3/4" between bats. This prevented cracks in the tile top due to temp differential from top to bottom. I have seen plywood top crack tile, as if not reinforced or saw cut slits to allow for flexing, the upward stress moves what ever is fastened to it.

 

This is the best picture that I can find of a slab of what the OP has. Looks nothing like the Aspen White that they got.

 

That's what most of the slab looks like, the cracked part I posted looks very different from the rest of the slab. Below is a zoomed out photo of the whole counter, you'll see it looks very similar to the aspen white you posted:

 

This is my wife's bathtub. Same basic idea. I built a nice strong base for it.



Granite guy floated a nice heavy mortar base around it.



And then set the granite slab using thinset between the mortar base and slab. I was concerned about the narrow points as well. It amazed me they carried this thing upstairs without it breaking. It's almost 9' long.

 

ddawg16, I do not know about you. I would be sweating it, as they carried it.

I know that some will sandwich them in between 3/4" plywood and strengthen with 2x3's if they are like that.

 

Looks like the "crack" is the veining in the slab, more than a real crack from the install.

But hearing that the granite isn't sitting solid on the cabinets all the way around, is VERY disconcerting.



For me, there is never a seam at the sink cut out. The sink cut out should be centered in the slab, "rodded" both front and rear to give it some added strength, and then the slab should rest fully on the cabinet. No shims, since they will cause gaps in support that could lead to failure.

Cabinets aren't level and even, the granite doesn't get installed on any of my projects.

 

As others have mentioned. On the east coast they generally don't build a base for the granite and use 1" thick granite.

 

It's actually 3cm or just under 1 ¼". (1.181) The left coast uses 2 cm. (.7874) We use 2 cm too, but usually only for vanities or vertical.

Jaz

 

Yeah. I have used the 2cm stuff in bathrooms too. Generally a much smaller selection.

It's one of the oddest things I have seen. That along with the dishwasher air gap. I didn't even know what those were until I googled. Have never seen one around me ever.

For the record. I have a very similar granite in my kitchen and we don't have any extra supports but also have a farmhouse sink.

Our island sink has some pretty narrow edges though. Lemme grab a pic.

 

123.... Is it lippage...ie a crack... or a natural stone void fissure.

Can you tell if goes thru your 3 cm thickness ....and is it a distinct line that demarcates two sections of your granite surface that are theoretically not the same plane..

 

This line is a crack, it very identifiably demarcates the two granite sections, I would refer to the follow photos, which the light from my phone's flash has reflected from the crevice pointing out the crack. I suppose it's possible the crack surrounds the perimeter of the granite section, but that it still has some amount of connection on its inner most portion, but even if that were the case it seems to me that it would still correctly be classified as a crack.

 

The stone in the area of the crack does not look like granite. Granite is a specific type of rock, and there are many other types of stone that look something like granite (gneiss, schist, greenstone, several other types). Regardless whether it is granite or not, what you are owed by the fabricator is a matter of what your contract specifies they owe you. I suggest you read the contract very carefully, there may be a specific section discussing the color, veining, and "cracks" in a given slab of stone. Certain types of stone are well known for the presence of internal faults that may give the appearance of cracks, but are perfectly normal in that particular type of stone.

 

The installer of the granite presented no contract. Only the bill listing what he would be doing (cutting/measuring/installing). There are literally no terms listed on it.

 

Ok, I did granite installs for many years, I know I wouldn't be happy with that.

As several have mentioned there is essentially no support across the cabinet front with a very fragile stone @ a sink, the single most stressed location in such an install. Someone ought to have pointed this out long ago and take steps to address it. This should have been discussed when the initial templating was done,

It will be a PITA to strengthen that section w/ the stone in place but it can be done. Some solid oak up underneath, with all gaps filled and left to set completely will hold that section. The crack (and it is clearly a crack) can be filled and fixed soas to be virtually invisible if you have the right guy doing it, unfortunately the right guy would have done more earlier, etc etc......

Granite has gotten wildly popular in last 20 years and like anything else, there are good and not-so-good outfits trying to make a buck off it. One more example of due diligence checking out a company beforehand, along with specific information in the contract.