1) Behr is horrible paint.
2) Kilz is horrible primer.
3) Did you check for moisture content in the substrate?

I don't see any mention of type of material you are painting but moisture content is often the cause of bubbling and peeling. Of course in this case you have two strikes against you by using both Kilz and Behr products. If you need to primer use a better brand such as Zinsser. Go to a real paint store for a good paint. SW, Ben Moore, Pratt & Lambert, PPG, etc. Just about any brand really is going to be better than the paint at the box stores.

 

KILZ is usually just used as an INTERIOR primer. As an overall exterior primer you are just asking for trouble. As PoppaMeth said, BEHR is absolutely the worst paint on planet earth. You're gonna have to strip all that BEHR paint off and start over.

 

Come on guys. OP, which two sides are you getting the blisters on, the mildewed powerwashed sides? Did you notice the blisters prior to p/wash? What kind of results are you getting on the good two sides? Any failure? Does the color and sheen seem to be holding its own? Some blistering after 4 years of coastal South Carolina weather isn't something to get your hair on fire about. I don't care if you buy a 1,000.00 gallon of paint, if some moisture gets behind it, it's going to fail. Besides, yearly maintenance-- scraping, priming, refinishing --on certain troublesome sides/areas is not uncommon on repaints where failure was a problem before, especially.

 

Come on guys.

Thanks for jumping in here.

OP, which two sides are you getting the blisters on, the mildewed powerwashed sides?

The two sides away from the sun get mildewed and blister. All sides were powerwashed.

Did you notice the blisters prior to p/wash?

Yes...that's why I powerwashed.

What kind of results are you getting on the good two sides? Any failure? Does the color and sheen seem to be holding its own?

The sides that face the sun (southeast and south) are nearly perfect. Color and sheen hold their own and I would say there are no failures on those two sides.

Some blistering after 4 years of coastal South Carolina weather isn't something to get your hair on fire about. I don't care if you buy a 1,000.00 gallon of paint, if some moisture gets behind it, it's going to fail. Besides, yearly maintenance-- scraping, priming, refinishing --on certain troublesome sides/areas is not uncommon on repaints where failure was a problem before, especially.

I expected better performance...but you're correct...not bad. Prior to Behr, I was using SW and seemed like I was going 7 years with much better results, so the 4 years is a disappointment in comparison. And, I was not getting the moisture penetration or bubbling on the two sides void of sun until what I considered my major overhaul of the finish. I mean...I thought I had done everything right by the book but it is apparent I had some failure so working to correct.

PS: substrate is 60 year old cedar wood.

 

A couple of other issues could also be contributing to the paint failure. Did you backroll when you sprayed? Spraying is tricky and backrolling to me is a must. And, perhaps painting in the late fall in 06 may have created some moisture issues. As paintGOD JSheridan stated, you did get 5 years out of your paint job in brutal conditions, maybe not such a big deal after all.

 

A couple of other issues could also be contributing to the paint failure. Did you backroll when you sprayed? Spraying is tricky and backrolling to me is a must. And, perhaps painting in the late fall in 06 may have created some moisture issues. As paintGOD JSheridan stated, you did get 5 years out of your paint job in brutal conditions, maybe not such a big deal after all.

What's "backroll?" Not familiar with paint techie terms. I'll admit, spraying caused me to "thin" the paint to get it thru the gun and I noted back then, it was going on thinner. I concluded afterward, next time to brush it. Rolling won't work with the 12" cedar boards.

 

OP-

What 2 sides are the problem? E & N?
Are the "good" sides W & S?

What kind of siding material do ya have?
Shakes or boards?
Insulation depth and quality?
How old is the home?
What products have been used previous?
"Like a week" of drying may not have been enough. Moisture-testers are CRUCIAL. They don't lie....

This may not be a PAINT problem at all, as JS is describing!

Faron

 

Thanks for clearing-up some of those questions Hunt4!

It's good to know it's good-'ol Cedar. Older boards are better!

Is the bubbling widely scattered, or near penetrations in the siding?
...such as below windows, vents, etc.?

Faron

 

I'm not here to trash or promote anyone's product. Your results seem conclusive, and might be. However, structures, environment, even interior events, change over the years and all can have an impact on exterior finishes. Example: If a bath ceiling fan breaks and never gets fixed, the moisture that fan used to exhaust must find a new way out, and that just may be through your exterior wall, taking the paint with it. You look up and see paint failure, in the area that just happens to be the area where your bath, or laundry, might be, and don't make the connection and assume the paint is bad. The harsher winters of the last few years may have taken a toll as well. All that said, I'm not defending any product, but to have you chase a problem that may not exist is of no help to you. Your results are half and half, and it may be that SW does stand up better to harsher conditions. But, it can also be said, according to your findings, that Behr can stand up to normal conditions, if you can call coastal SC environment normal. And, as I said, no matter what product you use, if you don't solve the moisture issue the problem will continue. If you choose to go back to SW, that's fine, but make sure you cover all your bases before you jump ship on what you have now. I'm here to solve problems, not hang them all on a particular product.
Question: Is the problem wide spread, varied, no ryhme, no reason, or is it localized to a particular area/structure where you can find a commonality? Stand there and look at it and ponder why it could be happening, and think outside the box.

 

Ext paint.

The majority of acrylic resins allow moisture to move out but not in. This moisture migration will be more prevalent in the areas that receive the most sunlight due to the sun super heating this side of the home. Consequently, the shady sides do not evaporate the morning dew and rain as quickly. this leads to the mildew accumulation. Duration is a GREAT product. I sell the stuff for a living, but even still I've seen it do some things WB paints shouldn't be able to do. However, it can fail due to moisture. A particular case I've been working on recently involved Duration over several coats of an old Cabot oil stain. The home had a clear moisture problem and the carpenters and roofers couldn't determine where the moisture was coming from. Even the inside of the house was showing signs of moisture migration and mildew growth. When my customer began power washing the cabot stain, 75% fell onto the ground. The other 25% was stuck. So we applied a full 2 coats of Duration. One year later everywhere the cabot stain remains on the sunny sides, the moisture is pushing the cabot stain away from the siding and causing blisters. The moisture is moving right through the Duration paint film where Duration was applied directly to the wood siding.
That being said, you may have an old oil based resin coating buried deep beneath the behr paint. Kilz ( if it's kilz original) is also an oil based primer. The oil will not allow the moisture to migrate out and will eventually peel again. Complete removal may be your only option as is my customer's.

 

That being said, you may have an old oil based resin coating buried deep beneath the behr paint. Kilz ( if it's kilz original) is also an oil based primer. The oil will not allow the moisture to migrate out and will eventually peel again. Complete removal may be your only option as is my customer's.

Thanks Dura

Well, I got curious so went through a bunch of old paint cans one of which was a SW exterior Alkoyd primer I must have used back in the mid 90's when I last used SW 10 year exterior latex. I suspect I talked to the paint guys and at the time was not sure if prior paint had included an oil base paint. I do recall that the finish, back than, was chalky and therefore the recommendation to apply the Alkoyd primer.

But when I "refinished" by scrapping and sanding, I removed both exterior and the primer layers therefore making them to greater susceptibility to the elements and therefore the blistering and peeling.

Does this make sense?

 

Now there is a good post( duration), thanks:thumbsup:

 

OP, amongst your weather report and meteorlogical lesson, I think was an answer to my question. :laughing: So, the failing sides take the brunt of the weather?, and the near perfect sides don't?. Seems to me it's an exterior moisture issue. Now it's a matter of figuring out how the moisture is getting behind your siding, repairing that defect, then repair the paint failure. Once you get all the failed paint off, let the wood dry for a couple of days prior to priming.

 

OP, amongst your weather report and meteorlogical lesson, I think was an answer to my question. :laughing: So, the failing sides take the brunt of the weather?, and the near perfect sides don't?. Seems to me it's an exterior moisture issue. Now it's a matter of figuring out how the moisture is getting behind your siding, repairing that defect, then repair the paint failure. Once you get all the failed paint off, let the wood dry for a couple of days prior to priming.

JS

Glad you enjoyed the WX lesson. Your queries set me up for like a big, slow softball pitch and had to take a swing at it. :thumbup:

So, I visited the local SW storefront and was offered a consultation by an SW paint rep. This afternoon he visited and here's a summary of his synopsis...best I can recall and many of those other contributors to this thread suggested similar findings.

His assessment: old oil based paint will persist to be a problem and does not have the give that latex does when moisture gets to the wood. As a result, it pops and cracks. He too banged away at the moisture penetration and that cedar, as a wood, has an affinity for moisture.

The other problems I have, and he stated not uncommon to houses along the coast, where he has consulted on hundreds, is the mildew spores. They attack immediately! Although I've just cleaned and painted, spores have already attacked and begun to hang out on both painted and exposed surfaces. So it is essential that a mildew, spore killing, element is included in the paint. Kilz doesn't have that and therefore is useless on exterior surfaces. Of course, he was very nice the way he presented this information...I'm just cutting to the chase for those that appreciated bottom line correspondence.

The long-term fix: mechanically remove all paint whether it's ground off or sanded but until it is removed the problem will persist. A 60 year-old wood with multiple layers of paint gets heavy and has difficulty adhering to the wood surface. He used some fancier word I don't recall off hand.

Or, short-term fix: This scenario I posed when the long-term fix is passed on. Scrap areas and use an oil based primer followed by an exterior latex paint. This will protect the raw wood surfaces but will not offer the protection where old paint remains layered.

But I'll continue to have this problem as long as old paint remains...regardless of paint selected or level of quality of that particular paint line. So, while an advocate for SW Duration and it is a longevity product, it is subject to the same condition I currently have with my north and northwest sides. There would be no benefit to the investment when the problem will persist until the long-term solution is completed. SW A100 would be as effective as any other SW product in the short-term. I concluded that I would rather fix the problem every few years, now that I understand it than grind off existing layers.

Oh...and by all means, avoid all chemical strippers. They would complicate a fix and would be a near disaster. He's currently working on one of those beach houses where they did a chemical strip and a year later, still having a problem with paint adherence...or something like that.

Questions?

 

OP, as a percent, how much square area is failing? Is it minor or major? I ask because if you fix as fails, it would probably be, as you say, more cost effective to do it piecemeal than wholesale. Moisture, if not from an internal source, does not attack wood through the paint. It enters from a compromised caulking joint, and unseen source like a window track, a place where the paint has failed that grows over time. After you scrape, give the exposed wood some time to dry, even covering it if rain comes in, before you prime. I see so many contractors prime it the following day and trap the moisture that caused the failure to begin with, creating a cycle. On the problem sides, always caulk all wood joins, for reinforcement. Moisture is entering through breaches in your protection system. You have to find and fix em. Spot fixes are an annual spring time chore to prevent minor glitches that develop over the year from becoming full blown cancer. And, always give exposed wood a thorough sanding with 80 grit paper and dust off well before priming.
Good Luck

 

OP, as a percent, how much square area is failing? Is it minor or major?

I would estimate 10-15 percent at the most.

Moisture is entering through breaches in your protection system. You have to find and fix em.

As I consider what's been shared on this thread, I see patterns and therefore have included a couple of photographs to illustrate. The two problem sides face ENE and NW. The ENE has had no soft wood that has had to be replaced. The NW side has had wood replaced and has other areas that need to be replaced and are essentially at the ends of the peak on both sides. The white blotches are primer.

But its primarily the lower boards that have been problematic. Perhaps I was not as attentive to mildew retardant paints as I should have been, assuming a good power washing was sufficient. But I understand your point...my paint protection system is being breached. Anyway, your insights appreciated.

Northwest

East Northeast