Here is one double pole rated at 22amps at 240v. (5280 watts)
https://www.amazon.com/HoneyWell-T498B1512-Electric-Voltage-Thermostat/dp/B000LDFSV2

 

Thanks. Maybe my problem has been finding a programmable double pole large enough for 4000 wts. I will dig a bit, but if anyone happens to know of one I would appreciate it

Secondly, will an inspector be looking for a double pole install in my case to act as a disconnect with a positive off feature. A single pole obviously has no Positive Off as one leg is always hot.

 

You can also use a "contactor" which is also known as a "relay" in the electronics world or a "solenoid" in the automotive world.

A contactor is an electrically operated switch. Very little electricity is needed to turn the contactor on/off, but the switching part of the contactor can handle a LOT of amperage depending on design/specifications.

So a programmable thermostat can operate the contactor, then the contactor would operate the high amperage heaters.

 

sounds like one more thing to go wrong, but an option thank you.

Do you know if an inspector wants to see some form of disconnect for wall heaters?

It was my thinking that the double pole thermostat would serve as a disconnect if that is needed. If no disconnect is needed, then the simplest thing to do is use a single pole thermostat with the only draw back being they usually won't go below 40 degrees (no positive off setting).

 

Ask your local electrical inspector. Get it straight from the horse!

FYI - I had a space heater turning on in my garage when it was cold. Off was not off! I added my own off switch so it wouldn't run up my electric bill.

 

I suspect you have a single pole thermostat which seem to never have an off, only a low setting of 40 degrees (if you are lucky and 50 if you are not).

This is one reason I wish to use a double pole and have it programmable, as I will use it in a bonus room for morning exercise, and when gone for weekends or trips ... just wan it OFF! (No plumbing etc. for freeze risk)

Can't seem to find

1. 4000 wt capable
2. double pole
3 programmable

WHY????????????? WHY am I the only one with such a need? WHy aren't there any out there?

 

Can't seem to find

1. 4000 wt capable - check
2. double pole - check
3 programmable - check

https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-TH106-Electric-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B000AUKVU4

**Edit - Oops, sorry. Not DP, but rated for 240V.

 

Exactly! Cadet (manufacturer) is suggesting the TH106, but it is a single pole, no positive off, which limits you to a low temperature setting of say 40 degrees and NO DISCONNECT if that is something an inspector wishes to see.

I will contact the inspect to see would he wants to see, but I would still like to have a positive off even if not required by the inspector.

It seems odd that no professional electrician guys are chiming in here with best practices and knowledge of code requirements. I can't be the only person in the world to wish 4000 watts of heat operated on one thermostat. Maybe that just implies single pole thermostats are ok by the vast majority and nothing more is required by inspectors. But that is a guess on my part.

 

Under the NEC, in a one family dwelling, no local disconnecting means is required. The main service disconnect/breaker can serve as the disconnecting means.

 

I wish to install two 2000 wt cadet wall heaters using ONE wall thermostat.

Cadet says I can use one of their recommended SINGLE pole thermostats to control both heaters, but they do not have a large enough double pole thermostat to control the two heaters.

...

Wouldn't this one do the trick?

Edit: Oops, this one wasn't programmible, sorry. I'll keep looking!

 

hey Speedy Pete..

They do require disconnect for water heaters but not 240 v baseboard or wall heaters?

 

Yes, no.

There is a specific code section that says the main service disconnecting means can serve as the "other" disconnecting means for fixed electric space heat in a one family dwelling.

 

You do need a service disconnect. It isn't a big deal. With your configuration you have three options:

1. Double pole thermostat in sight of both heaters and with a visible OFF position. This isn't feasible if you want a digital thermostat.

2. Circuit breaker either in sight of both heaters or capable of being locked in the OFF position. You haven't stated so, but I would assume the heaters are not in sight of the breaker panel. Handle locking devices are cheap and easily available for standard breakers. However, if you require AFCI this option might not be available to you.

3. Service disconnect either in sight of both heaters or capable of being locked OFF. These are available at home stores and hardware stores everywhere for under $10.

I agree that it's ridiculous more single pole programmable thermostats aren't available with a standby mode. It isn't uncommon for people to have these in a seldom used room and only want them to come on during weekend mornings, or other similar schedules. It would be even better to have the standby mode as one of the programmable settings. It would require only a software change.

If you can still find one, the Honeywell TL8130 has a standby switch. It's an older model but should still be for sale at suppliers. The Sinope TH1120RF-4000 also has a standby mode, but you'll have to buy into their web-based control system.

It seems odd that no professional electrician guys are chiming in here with best practices and knowledge of code requirements.

If you want the advice of an electrician on a timeline you demand, there are plenty of them local to you that would be happy to help. Look for them on yp.com, Angie's List, Google Maps, even that big yellow print book that some places still have. I hear even JC Penney is doing such home services now. Expect to pay significantly more than you do here.

 

programmable thermostat for 240v applications don't exist in 2 poles config since the thermostat needs a load when heating is off (not a true off, there is still some voltage at the baseboard when off) to power the thermostat electronics, the only way to do it is with a mechanical thermostat or with a low voltage one and a 24v transfo/relay combo.

 

Use an Aube Relay transformer in each heater then use a 24v low voltage programmable thermostat to control them. You'll get better temp
Control and you can get all the bells and whistles your heater desire on the stat. Even wifi.




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RC840T-240 Aube Technology


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this relay is still one pole only

 

OK, I read it wrong in your post. Sorry.

Bottom line is....you need a disconnect for a fixed electric heater. This can be a local disconnect on the unit, or "other means". In a one family dwelling this other means can be the main service disconnect. You DO NOT need a disconnect at the unit.

 

Bottom line is....you need a disconnect for a fixed electric heater. This can be a local disconnect on the unit, or "other means". In a one family dwelling this other means can be the main service disconnect. You DO NOT need a disconnect at the unit.

Read the section again. The use of section C requires a disconnect on the heating unit itself AND an other means of disconnect.

(C) Unit Switch(es) as Disconnecting Means.

The title of the section itself indicates a switch on the unit is going to be required by the section.

A unit switch(es) with a marked "off" position that is part of a fixed heater and disconnects all ungrounded conductors shall be permitted as the disconnecting means required by this article

And it is required. The switch on the unit satisfies the disconnect requirement, except there are additional requirements for a secondary disconnect:

where other means for disconnection are provided in the types of occupancies in 424.19(C)(1) through (C)(4).

These other means are in addition to the unit switch.

(3) One-Family Dwellings. In one-family dwellings, the service disconnecting means shall be permitted to be the other disconnecting means.

The "other means for disconnection" are essentially nothing for a single family home.

So no, a switch at the unit is not required. But a switch at the unit is required to use section C, and section C is what you're using to justify using the service disconnect as the heater disconnect.

 

Usually for larger loads like this, we would install a baseboard transformer/relay pack. It directly wires inline with the baseboard and has an integral transformer and relay with 2 low voltage wires to use with any standard thermostat. They aren't 2 pole though.

They are super common when multiple circuits are used with one thermostat. It doesn't apply to you, but you're above 240V you have no other choice. (other then contactors)

Cheers!