Got some pictures?
The slab and the steps should not even be attached to the house, just butted up against it.
A few things to be aware of, a raised deck need at least 12" of air flow under it to ward off mold.
Any deck, stoop, patio, should never be build even with a threshold unless it's under cover.
100% sure way to get water damage under the siding and threshold area.
If you spend anytime on DIY sites you'll see hundreds of examples of home destroyed from this one building mistake.
You did not include your location to your profile so it's hard for anyone to guess what your local code may be as to how far below the threshold needs to be.
In snow areas it's often up to 6".

 

Got some pictures?

Any deck, stoop, patio, should never be build even with a threshold unless it's under cover.
100% sure way to get water damage under the siding and threshold area.
If you spend anytime on DIY sites you'll see hundreds of examples of home destroyed from this one building mistake.
You did not include your location to your profile so it's hard for anyone to guess what your local code may be as to how far below the threshold needs to be.
In snow areas it's often up to 6".

Ok, keep in mind I'm completely new at all this. When you are talking about the threshold, what do you mean?

Here are some pictures for reference...


This is pretty much the gist of it. I didn't shovel everything but you can get an idea of what I'm up against.


This is one of the many cracks and you can kinda see how it is basically making a nice tunnel for water to flow right to the house


There seems to be about an inch of foam between the concrete and the foundation and looks like someone tried to fix some of the issue with expanding foam as well.



I also have a door that leads in to my garage with some planters put down leading to it. The grading here is especially bad. And somehow, even with the door sill about 8 inches off the ground, water tends to seep through and run in to my garage. I'm not sure if its the crap concrete underneath or what.




There's some snow in it, but you here you can see the concrete basically falling apart under the door


This kinda shows how bad the grading is. There's about a 3-4 inch difference in height between the left and the right sloped towards the house.

 

yeah, pics.


"I have a friend with a dump truck and backhoe who keeps bugging me as to when we're going to get this project going"
fantastic resource right there.

 

that was fast .

how does the yard grade away from the house ?

 

Haha with the least scientific and numeric answer - the yard is flat and doesnt seem to slope toward the house. Now, we have rock beds around the entire perimeter of the house and so I'm not exactly sure what the slope looks like under those. But in the short amount of time we've owned the house, we've had quite a few downpours and snow melts in the late fall and early winter and our sump pump has never had to turn on (and yes it works!). There's also no musty smell or sign of dampness in our basement. It is completely finished so its hard to get a good idea of how the basement walls look.

 

ok, thats good. if it were mine. i would get that slab out of there. and put in a paver patio that slopes away from the house (as much as is possible).

 

No way would I be considering installing any type of deck on that style home.
It's already to low.
Go with a patio instead.
The main reason patios fail is the ground under them was not properly prepped, just removing the grass and poring over it is not going to work.
Both your doors were not installed right is the reason there leaking.
I'd bet there's no flashing under them, the one in the garage has nothing under the threshold to fully support it so it does not twist when stepped on.
The one on the house has a piece of something over the outside edge of the threshold instead of under it to support it so all it's doing is forming a funnel to direct the water behind it.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...RM=IGRE#view=detail&id=D73E0CDB8C9BFFB029A97434F9A603F31CFE7F48&selectedIndex=1

 

What do you mean both the doors? The sliding doors are not leaking. Just the one leading in to the garage.

 

Not that you can see.
It was suppose to look more like this.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...-1&sk=#view=detail&id=45C13524481648280D59070F44792B53C0A337FC&selectedIndex=59

Here's a picture if the kind of damage I've had to deal with dozens of times caused by that one building 101 mistake.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...-1&sk=#view=detail&id=129D35C5125DDB68111393DFE1F17068117DA82C&selectedIndex=10

 

So how would that go about getting fixed?

 

I agree with Joe in regards to not installing a deck. You will not have proper ventilation under the joists and will end up with cupping and twisting of the deck joists due to the bottom of the joists absorbing moisture and expanding and the top shrinking from drying out when exposed to sunlight. A properly prepared patio would be the way to go in my humble opinion.

Good luck!

 

Would the same happen with composite decking? I mean, you guys are the experts here. I always thought a deck would look real nice in the back yard but if I'm limited to a patio, that will have to do.

 

composite decking is the deck boards (finish surface) not the frame. I've seen composite deck boards applied over a concrete patio slab as a finish surface.

 

Ah ok, learning these things as I go

 

we've all been where you are

 

I agree......go with the concrete patio.

How old is the home and has there been any settling of the backfill.

Someone made the comment a few posts back that a concrete porch shouldn't be attached to the foundation.
That's not quite true, there are many homes where the concrete porch and steps are bolted right through the foundation and totally supported by the foundation.
Reason being that then when the backfill settles there's no chance the steps will sink.

The key to a successful concrete slab is the prep work........pay attention to that.
That includes re-bar and a compacted gravel base.
And don't make the compacting mistake many people do......compaction is ineffective without water.
You won't believe the crazy arguments I've had with people that think you don't need water for effective compacting.

 

The house was built in the mid 80's. And there is some settling of the back fill. It's noticeable from how the patio has cracked and settled and the concrete driveway has started sloping down towards the house. That, in particular, will be mudjacked. I'm sure if those two areas have settled. The rest has as well.

Coming back to my original question, is there anything I should pay particular attention to or make sure gets done, when removing the existing concrete patio?

 

You might want to rethink the mud jacking,and get some soil testing done first.

 

Couple thoughts here:

- The back landing at the patio door is sitting on "haunches" more than likely, and it takes a little more care in removing if you go that route. If you end up replacing with another patio, you may consider keeping it if it's in decent shape.

- I can see no way that rain is coming into the garage service door from BELOW the door, it must be coming in OVER the threshold somehow. Perhaps it's running down the J channel and leaking in, or something similar.

- Although this time of year seems like a great time to tear-out the patio due to the frost, I wouldn't suggest doing so. The patio is frozen to the ground, and will take the subgrade/gravel/frozen ground with it. Removal will take 5-10 times longer than it would when the ground wasn't frozen. The only way around it would be to use insulating blankets/etc... over the patio for a few weeks before attempting to tear it out...........

 

Looking at your photos you have a problem. Have your guy tare out the old concrete, it looks as if you have some brick pavers in there as well never the less if your not going to save the pavers have him remove it all.

Next in the spring or when the ground is has thawed out form up the patio that you desire. Making sure that water will run away from the house. REMEMBER 1/4" in 4' is the rule of thumb. Meaning from your home the the form must be picked away form the home for every 4' it must drop 1/4" if you get more that is OK. It is NOT TO BE LEVEL.
Use 2 x 4 for forms once formed bring in some fill 21 AA crushed concrete for your grade to fill in the low areas. Form the looks of it you will need no more the 2 yards of fill, being that you are going to put back 4" of concrete. From the top of the form down will be your slab.
Your step area remove the board under the door well, you can replace it after the step is repaved. Form the step split the difference between the top of the door wall thrush and the top to the concrete slab that you are going to place. USE A STRING LINE TO DETERMINE THE BOTTOM OF THE STEP-- (You can put any kind of step in at this point) half round, 14 or 16 " landing step. You could even extend it even further then the door wall so that floral pots can set on both ends. LOTS TO CONSIDER WHEN IT COMES TO REPLACING YOUR PATIO
Make sure you tamp the new fill before placing concrete
to make concrete stronger use wire mesh, rod for the step, and fiber mesh these materials will help keep it from cracking and spreading apart.
Your patio may have settled over the years and that happens or the fellow that placed it in the first time did it wrong. Just remember concrete does not bow like a wood so if your concrete is bowed toward the house-- well you make that call..

THE FINISH- Light broom is nice, or swirl like a stucco look, borders on the outside edge look great ----- and saw cuts for relief cracks --- just remember all concrete cracks.
Hope this helps if you don't do concrete get someone that knows and does it. This is not something you want to practice on especially when you are place it, all the other things before that you can fix before placing. GOOG LUCK

 

Holly cow....

Dusty, you didn't make a whole lot of sense there........lol.
And don't use fibermesh concrete if it's going to be finished, having those strands of fiberglass poking up when your walking on it with your bare feet won't be pleasant.

Your getting all kinds of different advice here Millsteg.
No one has even told you what strength of concrete to use........32 mpa by the way.
Unbelievable.

First, I give advice from a contractor's point of view who's just about seen it all.......experience has taught me how to do it right.
But doing it that way cost's more money so you get what you pay for.

Talk to a concrete finisher
Then when the ground thaws......remove the old concrete and then soak the ground really, really good where it's settling.......let it dry and bring in some gravel.
Make sure you have room for the gravel and concrete.......you probably have to remove material......talk to the concrete finisher about that.
And pay attention to the compaction ! ( don't call it tamping, that's for wimps )

You want the compacted gravel to be about 9" - 10" down from the door sill and slope away from the house about 1/2" every 4 feet........even 3/8" would be enough.
But ask the concrete finisher to confirm this height will work.

And then have the professional concrete finisher do the prep, placing and finishing...........professionally.

 

concrete patio

Sorry you did not understand,
maybe if we were to talk face to face you may have understood better
The strength of concrete is the PSI ( pounds per sq. Inch.) and that depends what sack mix you order??????
And soak the ground after a winter frost is just nuts, it's frozen there is enough moisture in the ground, and wouldn't you think that the ground would be settled after all those years? Besides that if you really wanted to have a good grade you would take out one foot of top soil or what ever you have and replace it with gravel or 21AA crushed concrete for a great base and power tamp it. Not stomp on it with with your feet like a (wimp)

and as far as using fiber mesh it would not bother your bare feet at all.
as far as pitch 1/2 is really good 3/8 is also good, rule of thumb is 1/4" in 4' :thumb up: if you can get more it is always better. Is what I said :whistling2:
I have placed thousands of yards of concrete and some of the things that you said make no sense at all. Sorry we don't se eye to eye!!!!
I can not believe you couldn't understand being a general contractor in all, or you just trying to be rude????
Keep responding and maybe we can understand each other.

 

Sorry you did not understand,
maybe if we were to talk face to face you may have understood better
The strength of concrete is the PSI ( pounds per sq. Inch.) and that depends what sack mix you order??????


Gary- 32 MPA is the strength specification I would tell the ready mix plant I want, I don't mix the concrete onsite myself.


And soak the ground after a winter frost is just nuts, it's frozen there is enough moisture in the ground, and wouldn't you think that the ground would be settled after all those years?


Gary- I said AFTER the ground has thawed out.


Besides that if you really wanted to have a good grade you would take out one foot of top soil or what ever you have and replace it with gravel or 21AA crushed concrete for a great base and power tamp it. Not stomp on it with with your feet like a (wimp)


Gary- I told the homeowner to bring in gravel and that he will need to remove material to make room for it. I use either a plate compactor or a jumping jack and it's called compacting......telling the homeowner to "tamp" the ground could mean anything, I was stressing the importance of proper compaction and the use of water.


and as far as using fiber mesh it would not bother your bare feet at all.


Gary- I was told by my concrete finisher years ago (he's placed millions of yards) not to use fibermesh for finished concrete because the fibers will cause an issue with finishing and be exposed after you finish......so I've only used fibermesh in special circumstances where extra strength was required.


as far as pitch 1/2 is really good 3/8 is also good, rule of thumb is 1/4" in 4' :thumb up: if you can get more it is always better.


Gary- Yes, we agree there


Is what I said :whistling2:
I have placed thousands of yards of concrete


Gary- So have I


and some of the things that you said make no sense at all. Sorry we don't se eye to eye!!!!


Gary- I think I make sense and we seem to be in more agreement now


I can not believe you couldn't understand being a general contractor in all, or you just trying to be rude????


Gary- No, it was not my intention to be rude......sorry if that's how it came across.


Keep responding and maybe we can understand each other.

Hope this response comes out ok.......it didn't, oh well.....not going to do it again and I think you guys can still read it.
We also need to keep in mind that were giving advice to homeowners that usually have little or no construction experience........we need to keep things straight forward for them.

 

Haha ok.... I wish I knew more about all this stuff so I could relate a little better. But this is what I understand so far,

Do not remove the concrete while the ground is still frozen. Any tips to save the grass?

Do or do not remove the concrete landing?

I know the grade has to be right all around the house. I am having someone come out on Monday to see what that might take.

I don't really like the look of concrete patios so since you all are suggesting to not go with a deck and go with a patio, I've been looking in to paver stone patios. Any thoughts?

 

Haha ok.... I wish I knew more about all this stuff so I could relate a little better. But this is what I understand so far,

Do not remove the concrete while the ground is still frozen. Any tips to save the grass?

Typically, the drier the ground is, the less rutting/damge you will get. Sheets of 3/4" plywood/ etc. help as well.

Do or do not remove the concrete landing?

You're choice really. If you decide to go with a deck, it will be hidden below. If a grey patio, it should look fine. If a colored/stamped/brick patio it may need to go, or may need to be re-finished/stained/etc....

I know the grade has to be right all around the house. I am having someone come out on Monday to see what that might take.

I don't really like the look of concrete patios so since you all are suggesting to not go with a deck and go with a patio, I've been looking in to paver stone patios. Any thoughts?

Look into ALL options, get a few prices and choose what YOU like. I can tell you I meet alot of customers that "really aren't interest in plain grey concrete patios" until they get a few quotes for a composite deck of paver patio. Then, suddenly, they grow fond of concrete.........

 

The prep work with gravel and then sand is even more important.

But I bet there's guys here that do more paving stones than me.

Sorry again Dusty......I sometimes get a little carried away and almost treat some of the projects here in the forums as one of my jobs !

I'm gonna chill out a little more....lol.

 

concrete patio



No problem Gary, and sorry if I came across the wrong way. I use the word tamp, but we use a power plate compactor. Wrong word I agree. Ground prep is very important it makes the job right from the ground up. I see where use ing the word tamp drew up a flag, use ing a hand tamp to prep ground is not adequate for compacting the ground. Again sorry for the confusion.

 

I had a somewhat similar situation. I took out all the concrete in the summer, re-graded and re-built with patio stones. I kept it about 4" below my door threshold, and sloped it at 1.5" over 15'. I used the polymeric grout, and installed everything according to manufacturers instructions and advice from local pro's.
It came out very nice. I really like the look and durability without the cracking. It's easy to shovel snow off and maintain. I went on to replace other sidewalks with the pavers. I'm happy I did.
However....
I did not like how much work it was- whew!- and the final cost was more than I thought it would be, even though I did all the work myself.

 

what's all that white stuff lying about - your wife running a bakery ? [ ducking ] some of you guys sound like carpenters - never saw 2 of them agree on anything !

anyone else go to world of conc this year ?

 

anyone else go to world of conc this year ?

I would have liked to, but my wife said "NO WAY".

Last time i went, I got an STD.....................

 

Well that took a turn in an odd direction haha. I'll let you guys know what I decide to do with the patio. I've got a budget in the 5k to 7k range. I know that won't get me much but I'm hoping it will get me something decent. I'd like to do a lot of the work myself but I really don't want to screw anything up and have to have it done over.

 

Well that took a turn in an odd direction haha.

:laughing: bet ya didn't see that one coming :yes:

stained concrete can look awesome. look into that. i am going to do pavers, as i can do that myself.