[de-nagorg]

For every bolt that goes into a nut, get a tube of locktite blue, and remove the bolt and one drop of locktite, on the bolt.

Replace the bolt, and repeat on all the rest.

Yes I know locktite is for automotive use, but it is very useful on any threaded fastener. Sold at the auto parts store, or department in wally world.

Extra brackets will not hurt, and might be beneficial.

The manufacturer relies on gravity to keep the upper bunk on the post below, this has worked for decades, so your choice on an anchoring plate .

ED

I forgot, particle board, pressboard, chipboard, will all deteriorate and be falling apart in short order.

3/8 or thicker plywood as a minimum, even better 1X slats laid lengthwise spaced 2 inches apart will support even the heaviest adult, if they are so inclined to sleep there.

 

[de-nagorg]

There is 2 types of Loctite, RED, and BLUE, I believe that the BLUE is removable, be sure before using it, the package should sat that it is not the permanent one.

The 3/8 ply has one more ply for added strength.

And if you cut the slats the exact length needed to span the distance they will act as a group of braces as good as a plywood full sheet. 1X6 or wider would be my choice.

As for a connection brace between the upper and lower post, are the children strong enough to lift the upper bunk high enough to uncouple them?

If so then a simple mending plate on each corner will keep them together.

I would forego using them, but I might be mistaken, I can remember being on the bottom and kicking up to bug my brother, and having a near failure.

So it might be wise to attach the 2 pieces into one unit.


ED

 

[de-nagorg]

You're welcome.

You asked how I would attach the 1X to the bed.

A minimum of two screws per at least half of the slats, that way the 1X are attached solidly to more slats, to prevent any wracking during any movement of the Bunks.

They move just by being gotten into or out of, as well as when you move them to sweep under, or make the bed.

I applaud your efforts to accommodate these little guests, Grandchildren are life's gift for surviving their parent's teenage years. :vs_laugh:


ED

 

[de-nagorg]

Replace those slats with solid wood.

Screwing into end grain plywood, does not hold very well, unless you use carriage bolts through the plywood slats with washers and nylock nuts.

My opinion.

Yes I know more expense, but I would rather spend money on prevention, than remedy after someone gets hurt.


ED

 

[de-nagorg]

Arrgghhhh. I didn't like the prospect of screwing into end grain plywood, either, but I liked the prospect of replacing the slats even less. It's not the expense, it's the hassle of getting them the right length, drilling the pilot holes and getting them to line up with the existing pilot holes, etc.

What if I just use twice as many screws?

Is there some kind of anchor nut that I could put into the slats that would be more sturdy than a screw?

What about those nut-like gizmos that have a washer-like collar with little spikes that you drive down into the wood? But they go on the other edge, right? And I'd need to drill a hole all the way thru the slat.

(sigh)

As I suggested , use carriage bolts, drill through the plywood sheet, through the plywood slats, insert the carriage bolt with washer, through the hole, through the slat, then use another washer, and NY-LOCK nut, to secure the assembly together.

This will strengthen the bed frame and be a solid platform for supporting a mattress.

A child could even "dance" on it and be safe.

The carriage bolt has a square shank at the head, so be sure to find the proper washer to fit this.


ED

 

[de-nagorg]

The T nuts, would work, but I am thinking that they might not cover enough area to prevent pulling themselves in too far in the plywood edge, thus my reason for suggesting a large flat washer between the nut and the bottom of the slat.

Those inserts need something to grip, and plywood has voids and soft material throughout it, Thus my reasoning for washers on both sides.

Carriage bolts have rounded domed heads, that will also be less abrasive on a mattress skin, than a hex head bolt.

One could cover any protruding bolt with a ball similar to the ones supplied with toy Jacks ( the pointy girls toy), but that is inviting curiosity to try removing the balls.

Glad that you are planning ahead on this, I too do the 7 P policy.

7 P = Prior Proper Planning Prevents Pizz Poor Projects.


ED

 

[de-nagorg]

The plywood slats do look to be a better grade of material.

Now I question the amount of material that the screws in the ends of the slats are really grabbing in the side rails.

Looks to be very close to the edge line of the side rail, and might be easily broken by moving the bed around.

And as someone pointed out drilling through the plywood will weaken it's construction, and it might fail too soon.

So can you fabricate a L bracket / clamp item that clamps under the slat, and screws into the plywood sheet on top, where the tighter you clamp it, the tighter the sheet is pulled to the slat.?

Or you could just do the Garden Party approach.

" You can't please everybody, So just please Yourself."

ED

 

[de-nagorg]

I'm going to guess that they are thinking of the ones that are called a CAM-LOCK, where the cylinder turns to lock onto the head of the bolt.

Those have a wedge design inside the cylinder that meshes with the tapered head, so the more the cylinder is turned , the tighter the two pieces are pulled together.

You say that you have ones that are tightened by turning the bolt with a hex key, thus pulling the cylinder toward the open end of the bolt hole.

ED

 

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In post 34 above, I like #4 suggestion, the sistering idea , combined with the T nuts, has a better expectation of strengthening the bed.

I observe that he edited something and a #3 is now missing, must of had an epiphany and removed #3.

It's good that interest has occurred on this, that way you will get somw great suggestions.


ED

 

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I don't believe I called anything you said "silly".

You are right. I was looking in the wrong dimension. I see now what you are talking about.

Based on my new understanding, I am proposing three new options.

1. U Brackets. If I can find some the right size, this would seem to be the best option. It doesn't drill any holes in the slats and it doesn't depend on wood screws in plywood. I would think
2. Angle Brackets. These are readily available and cheaper. It does require a hole in the plywood slat, but it is across the plies.
3. Wood Screws.This is the simplest option, but probably the least stable.

Do you (or anyone else) have any comments on these?

If Option A is the best, does anyone know where I can get U brackets of the right size? I couldn't find any online.

Do you have an opinion on whether to countersink? I am concerned about wear and tear on the mattress if there is anything protruding above the plywood base.

Thanks

On the U brackets, you go to a metal fabrication shop, with your dimensions, and place an order for as many as you need, they have the materials, tools, and experience to make them.

It will be costly, but what is the grandchildren's safety worth.

I have done this exact thing to get brackets custom made, so I know " of what I speak".

On the L brackets, they are less reliable in stress situations like what I imagine kids can make.

And as for the screws, there are little plastic caps made for the countersink holes to cover the heads, they are smooth topped, and the mattress slides without catching.

The decision is still yours to make, all I can do is state what I know to help.



ED

 

[de-nagorg]

If you use a bead of PL construction adhesive in conjunction with the bolts/ nuts, three bolts will be great, one each end, one centered.

This is a narrow bed, so three recessed screws per slat will do, and find those plastic caps / plugs, at the bolts, nuts, nails, aisle in HD, or other box store, or a real hardware store.

They are flat, usually white, sometimes black, and fit great in a recessed hole to cover a screw.

They are sisters, because old carpenters were mostly men, and embedding a brother in there sounded ODD.

They are also called SLEEPERS sometime, so?


ED

 

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Those little blocks are intended to stop the slats from twisting and coming loose.

So what I propose, is to add the extra slats, with your own 1X1 blocking at the centers of the existing spaces between those blocks, and add screws through the rail, just like the plywood slats have.

You still get the extra support, and strength.

Geez , I hate cheap knock down furniture.

But I like re-designing them to hold up better.

Keeps the old grey matter working, you know the use it, or lose it.

ED

 

[de-nagorg]

I've been away for almost 2 weeks, so I can't go look at the bed for another 2 days. It seems to me that the blocks were nailed to the frame. I don't know if they were also glued. I could try to pry one loose to see.

What if I remove the blocks on one side of each slat, add the sister slat, then replace the block up against the sister slat?
That was plan 1, but I thought that it might damage the rails too much, TRY IT.

The existing slats are screwed down into the rails and the screws are recessed about 3/4" (half way down).

If I also screw the sister slats down into the rails, when I cover them all with the plywood base, I will not be able to get to those screws without removing all of the screws from the base to the sister slats, which defeats the objective of having a single assembly to remove.

Simply drill a pilot hole in the plywood to access those screws, before mounting the plywood, this will allow removal without having to disassemble it completely.

That ship sailed quite some time ago...:sad:

I'm fighting it myself.


ED

 

[de-nagorg]

For your plywood sheeting, I would get it with at least one side sanded smooth, for the mattress to lie on, and not wear a hole.

As for screwing into the existing slats, I suggest that you get 1/2 inch dowel, make as many short pins as you will need to fill a 1/2 inch hole drilled into the slat and glue the plugs into the slat.

This gives you solid wood to screw to, and not the possible bad plywood veneering of the slat.

P. S. Don't get caught up in a feud between others.


ED

 

[de-nagorg]

So you're recommending driving a wood screw into the endgrain of a dowel? Do you believe that wood screws are effective in endgrain? Don't you think that the threads of the woodscrew will cut the fibers of the dowel, thereby dropping its holding power to near zero, especially if it gets over torqued or removed and reinstalled even once, let alone several times as described by the OP?

It's done when a door hinge screw has stripped out.

True they are not taken out and replaced often.

Then if you object to dowel, how about using a plug cutter, and making your own plugs from an oak 2X?


ED

 

[de-nagorg]

The square in each corner is good enough, also the diagonal measure , even a string on diagonal will work, if you don't have a tape measure.

Then the 3-4-5 rule.

Many ways to " skin that cat".


ED

 

[de-nagorg]

Yes that's sloppy.

Might take some looking, but I would be going to a place like Grainger Supply, and having them look through their books and stockroom for pins that fit the current bore.

Or you can find a proper bushing for it there.

Duct tape will just work loose again, then you will have a mess of mashed tape in the bore that needs to be removed before you can use a new pin.



ED

 

[de-nagorg]

The finer threads will give you just a bit more metal to metal holding power.

Otherwise use whichever you want, but do it to all of them, none of this half and half stuff, that some people do.

I'm not saying that you do, I don't know.:devil3:

ED

 

[de-nagorg]

If you glue them, use Cyanoacrylate. ( Super glue), it holds great on both materials, and is less messy to get into the bore, as well as won't squeeze out and maybe plug the threads.

And just the tiniest drop in there.


Half n half on Wheaties, now that's good food. :biggrin2::wink2:


ED

 

[de-nagorg]

To cut down on measuring so often, I would get some pipe clamps, and clamp the frame square ONE time, and then pre-drill everything with the clamps in place.

Get squared once, clamp , then drill, drill, drill.

And screw it all tight.

Remove clamps, and admire the work.


ED