I would not tap the stove wiring. I would free up some space in the panel, such as lights that you mentioned.

 

i am very tempted to use tap into the kitchen's location because the run is shorter and no obstacles. may i ask why that route should not be done?
the method 2 requires running through 80feet of sheet rock, doable but painful.

 

I see some tandem breakers at the bottom of the panel. Assuming they are legal for the panel I would swap out some more of the full size breakers for tandems.

 

That would be my first go-to. Swap some full size breakers out, install tandems then you will have room for the proper breaker to the EV.
I would not tap into the stove box.

 

Tapping off or the stove circuit is not the best way because with the stove nominally consuming more than half the ampacity of the circuit requires no other receptacles being on that circuit.

Two branch circuits, typically with extremely low current draw e.g. just a few lights each, may be pigtailed in the panel to share one breaker. (They then become redefined as one branch circuit.) This is at the risk of having multiple areas go dark if the breaker trips and in turn making it more complicated to find the cause of the trip. A tossup whether you want to go this route.

Check your panel specs for how many tandem breakers may be installed, sometimes expressed as total number of breaker handles, sometimes due to some slots not eligible for tandem breakers.

 

Tapping off or the stove circuit is not the best way because with the stove nominally consuming more than half the ampacity of the circuit requires no other receptacles being on that circuit.

Two branch circuits with extremely low current draw e.g. just a few lights each may be pigtailed in the panel to share one breaker. This is at the risk of having multiple areas go dark if the breaker trips and in turn making it more complicated to find the cause of the trip. A tossup whether you want to go this route.

Check your panel specs for how many tandem breakers may be installed, sometimes expressed as total number of breaker handles, sometimes due to some slots not eligible for tandem breakers.

even if the stove is off? it still draws? we only cook from 7am to maybe 9pm.
the car will charge from 11pm to 5am.

 

Are we ignoring the elephant in the room? Is tapping off the stove for an EV charger or anything else even NEC compliant. I thought an electric stove had to be on it's own dedicated circuit?

 

yes, i agree.
but im hoping it's ok because the stove and the charger will never be used simultaneously.

 

If it's non-compliant, it won't become compliant by usage. The Code rules are (theoretically) to ensure safe and proper usage by everyone across the board. The next owner could be a shift worker with different usage patterns.

 

Tapping into the stove circuit will be an instant inspection fail. And I do hope you are planning on permit and inspection.

NEC 220.55 dictates the requirements for a dedicated electrical circuit for household cooking appliances. The appliance manufacturers instructions will also will require a dedicated circuit.

 

EV's because they are a load that lasts a long time are to be put on their own circuit.
Before you go any farther into this. You need to get an electrical contractor to do a load calculation on the service. When you get a permit it will be required. You can contact your POCO with your meter number and get the high KwH for the last year by month. This is not a perfect number and may change when the calculation is done. 200 amp service is 48000 watts or 48kw.
Most 200 amp services will be in the 20kw range that I have seen.
Your panel has lots of 15 and 20 amp single pole breakers, in pairs these CAN be combined with other circuits of the same amperage and phase. You need 2 spaces for the EV breaker.

 

Tung256:
I see you have two kitchens and two stoves/ranges at 50amps.
I would expect that you have 200amp service?

You want to tap into the stove line which is 50amps. You keep saying 240volts but you have not told us what the EV charger requires in Amps. You may not even be able to tap into the stove 50amp line if the EV charger requires less.

I also see a few heaters and a 20amp 120v stove

What gauge conductors are you planning to use?

I also hope you plan on getting a permit (some locals don't require a permit if home owner does work) and an inspection which is required even if you do the work. If a permit is required a load calculation may also be required for this install. How would you fudge that?

As mentioned if you tap into the stove/range circuit I have a very strong feeling that you will fail inspection.

People - I just don't get it sometimes.
A person will spend $45k-$80k on an EV vehicle but will not spend the proper amount of money to have it installed properly by a professional. Trying to save a few thousand dollars on a professional electrical install; spend less on the car so you have the money for professional electrical installation of the charger. They ask for professional assistance from us which we are here for but then insist on going against our advice and do it their way anyway.

 

i am in Philadelphia and did not know they require permits for a Level 2 charger. i can check on that.
the install process seems pretty straight forward so i did not think twice about regulations.

 

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It is straight forward if you do it right. Feeding off the stove circuit is not, and the mere idea that you are considering it seems to me a dangerous lack of knowledge indicates that you should pay a professional to do it right and fully permitted. The expense is offset by a 30% Federal tax credit and is small in the scheme of things. And, you'll be safe and won't fail a homeowner's inspection if you sell your house.

 

Tung256 the other most important thing you have to and must keep in mind is your cars warranty. If anything happens the car company will do everything in their power to deny the claim especially if there was no permit or inspection (you can't produce the documentation) and that you did the install yourself "half-assed" to save a few bucks. Sleep on that. Just giving you something to think about.

 

i understand the stove and charger cannot work at the same time. i will set the charger to work from 1am to 6am.

Yeah, it doesn't work that way. You can't pinky-promise not to overload a panel. And that's reasonable if you think about it... someday when half of cars are electric, you'll have a Thanksgiving gathering, and Aunt Karen will spot the EV charger and plug right in, in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner. Karen is presuming you did your job 10 years ago when you installed it, a reasonable presumption.

You need a switcher or electronic regulator, however, there is reasonably cheap kit to do that for you called EVEMS. Extensive description here. It adds maybe $300 to the price of a hardwired wall unit. (don't be stuck on a socket, it's a novice error and it would force you to use a much more expensive (and dumber) load shed device like a SimpleSwitch.)

You can tap at the range with an EVSMS such as the Wallbox Pulsar Plus with power meter, (Wallbox is <$500 at CostCo)... or a dumb and costly Simpleswitch or DCC.

I am in Philadelphia and did not know they require permits for a Level 2 charger.

It's more than that. You need to talk to the utility to see if you have enough capacity for the bonkers-tier load you're about to inflict on the poletop transformer. Assuming you want a bonkers-tier 50-60A charge rate. "All the cool kids say to go that fast" well you really, really don't need to. As Alec says, "It's expensive, and may come with more headaches than you bargained for."

The headaches often entail things melting.

And on the other hand, if you install a sensibly sized station such as 3-4 kW (15-20A / 240V), the power company may not care, and the city may not even need a permit. Some don't ask for permits for "15A or 20A circuits" - note the part where they do not specify a voltage.

 

By the way I see a couple of alien breakers in that panel. The GE top left should be replaced by a Siemens Q230, very typical of A/C guys to use the wrong breaker. They don't care.

Also the Eaton BRD tandem near bottom right needs to be a Siemens Q2020NC.

 

By the way I see a couple of alien breakers in that panel. The GE top left should be replaced by a Siemens Q230, very typical of A/C guys to use the wrong breaker. They don't care.

Also the Eaton BRD tandem near bottom right needs to be a Siemens Q2020NC.

all good advice. i will definitely follow.
also, i cant believe you noticed these wrong breakers too. very observant!

 

i should mention the solar guys are installing solar panels. they have these boxes in the alley, side of the house, that is 10 feet away from where i park in the driveway.
they already ran a thick orange line from my electrical panel to this location.... i wonder if an electrician can tap into this location

 

i should mention the solar guys are installing solar panels. they have these boxes in the alley, side of the house, that is 10 feet away from where i park in the driveway.
they already ran a thick orange line from my electrical panel to this location.... i wonder if an electrician can tap into this location

View attachment 769592

If you are referring to the Enphase panel, that’s actually a combiner panel for your solar strings. There should be a breaker for each string and one for your Enphase meter. Despite resembling a subpanel, it’s only for solar and you are not allowed to add loads.

Also not sure what this “thick orange cable” that they ran is. It sounds more like a communication cable than power, since from the sound of it, the cable is by itself.

 

That's certainly possible, since solar is an anti-load. It looks like there is a small subpanel there.

 

The OP keeps stating tapping a circuit but the last photo is probably a 30A circuit and when mentioned to tapping the stove circuit I envisioned them using a 14-50P. Another consideration, will a L2 charger be installed or is a 14-50 receptacle going 80' away. If it's a L2 charger (Tesla, Clipper Creek, ChargePoint, etc..) all have build in GFCI protection but if it's 14-50R then you will also need a GFCI breaker or a GFCI disconnect. It needs to be a dedicated circuit from the panel to the destination. A crew of two guys should have that installed in 4-6 hours.

 

The OP says he lives in Philadelphia. A quick check shows that the city requires all work to be done by a licensed electrician and a permit is required.

Get an Electrical Permit | Services

How to get a permit for work on electrical systems or equipment.

www.phila.gov

 

solar installer says the box in the alley they installed is definitely not something to tap in. lol

 

i got the EV charger up and running now, thanks everyone!

today i noticed this video and learned about EVEMS. pretty cool how it can share a load between oven and an EV charger...
maybe it can help someone searching in the future: