The cap for the fan motor is probably more like 15 microfarad than 80. The 80 uF is for the compressor. I hope this 10 dollar cap is not all that you needed.

I have had bad luck using universal motors on Trane units unless I increase to the next size up. (they overamp)

 

Sounds like you need a new service company.

As a non-PRO, I wouldn't go off nilly-willy and change out all the listed items.

With power off, you can try spinning the blower by hand and see if it is free-wheeling. If not, try lubing it. You can also try powering up the blower motor by applying outside power to the proper contacts. If it runs, good. You can change the capacitor cheaply and request overnight delivery at arnoldservice.com. Most expensive one is probably less than $50.

Since you obviously have a heat pump, it sounds to me that the reversing valve has reversed giving you cooling. Some brands energize to heat; others, to cool. I would look there.

Some have suggested gently tapping the valve during a call for heat.

Good luck.

 

80 microfarad is the compressor side. The fan side is either a 5, a 7.5, or 10 mfd. This means that you'd have a dual run cap so the numbers would be stamped such as 80/5 mfd +/-5%. This means that either 5 percent of 80 or five percent of whichever number is for the fan is in range.

Your compressor was running slower if it was a 70 and not at 80, nothing to do with the fan outside of if the fan cap was working or not.

Capacitor at Grainger: no more than $25 I'd suspect and the dual run which runs both fan and compressor.
New condenser fan motor: if OEM only no more than $150. General replacement no more than $60, possibly $70-ish.

If you can get your hands on a defrost board which I'd have to suspect yours is still good maybe a slight bit over $100.

The cap and the motor you can definitely do yourself and we will help you. That's near a grand you will save, not $300.

Merry Christmas.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: your stock is rising Doc

 

Just got home from a few days away and found that I had no heat.
Instead the cooling seemed to have kicked in.
I checked the outdoor unit and the fan was not rotating.

I called out our A/C company and they said that the Fan motor was toast and susspected that the defrost board may also be fried.
The Capacitors were 10 micro farads lower than they should be. They were 70 and should have been 80.

The quote to fix this seems very high to me and I wanted some opinions.

The quote is:
$700 for the fan motor replacement
$500 for the defrost board
$200 for the Capacitor

So a total of $1400

I am trained in electronics and mechanical engineering and the replacement does not seem too difficult a job.
I looked on e-bay and found motors for around $150, boards for around $50 and I can not think that the caps would be more than about $100.

So that would be $300 a saving of $1100 if I could do it myself.

Oh and by the way the tech said he could not guarantee that it would work after replacing the parts.

The unit is 10 years old.

He also recommended two other option:
1) 7 year maintenance agreement for $1800 and would throw in this repair
2) A new unit at around $5000

I am thinking about ordering the parts for $300 and atempting the repair myself. Worst that happens is I fail and loose $300 ore even get someone else to do the repair for about $500 cash in their hand.

What do you all think?

ps, going by those numbers I'm upping my charge for condenser fan replacements beginning New Years. :thumbup:

 

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

check on here for prices on all the stuff http://www.bestbuyheatingandairconditioning.com/

 

Now I've been out of the business for arond five years now but I have to say That $700 is high for a motor change out,$500 is more than double for a defrost board and anything more than $40-$50 is pure fantacy.
Trane is very particuliar about the motors they choose to use.That being so a replacement should have the same voltage,amps dsraw,horse power ,RPM,frame size and service factor. or you could be replacing it again in a year or so.
Please notwe that a new motor could require a differant size capasitor and also double check the UF needed for the compressor.It should be on the wiring diagram or the compressor itself.
You will not get any warranty doing it yourself but you should be able to purchase the components for $300 or so.
The one thing I have learned is that with Trane equipment ,universial replacement parts rarely work as good and as long as actual factory replacement parts.
Good luck.

 

Thanks for all the great advice

You all have some great ideas here and also confirm my thinking that the pricing is probably way over what it should be.
I will try to see if I can get the motor to turn.
The cap is for the compressor not the motor.

Thank you all and Merry Christmas to you all

 

If you do not have a meter that tests microfarads, mfd, and thus can not test the capacitor then begin with a new one. A new capacitor, that is.

 

I would get the fan running before looking for parts for the compressor.
Lennox was bad about going into defrost when the outdoor fan motor was out maybe because the cold outdoor coil would cause the sensor to read lower temps.
If that is the case the compressor may be working at a high head pressure without the outdoor fan in the cool or defrost mode.
+or- 10%on a run cap for a 3 ton unit is ok in my book.
Sometimes things will jump out at you and make you think the situation is worse than it is the tec might just have been looking at another issue.

 

Not just high, those prices are you're getting ripped off high

 

Just got home from a few days away and found that I had no heat.
Instead the cooling seemed to have kicked in.
I checked the outdoor unit and the fan was not rotating.

I called out our A/C company and they said that the Fan motor was toast and susspected that the defrost board may also be fried.
The Capacitors were 10 micro farads lower than they should be. They were 70 and should have been 80.

The quote to fix this seems very high to me and I wanted some opinions.

The quote is:
$700 for the fan motor replacement
$500 for the defrost board
$200 for the Capacitor

So a total of $1400

I am trained in electronics and mechanical engineering and the replacement does not seem too difficult a job.
I looked on e-bay and found motors for around $150, boards for around $50 and I can not think that the caps would be more than about $100.

So that would be $300 a saving of $1100 if I could do it myself.

Oh and by the way the tech said he could not guarantee that it would work after replacing the parts.

The unit is 10 years old.

He also recommended two other option:
1) 7 year maintenance agreement for $1800 and would throw in this repair
2) A new unit at around $5000

I am thinking about ordering the parts for $300 and atempting the repair myself. Worst that happens is I fail and loose $300 ore even get someone else to do the repair for about $500 cash in their hand.

What do you all think?

I will not comment on the pricing........to each his own, but it seems he is just "throwing" parts at it to make up for his lack of trouble shooting skills. It may be time for a new company and with that new prices.

 

Attempting the repair myself

I asked another company and they came up with similar prices :-(
I am in Fountain Hills Arizona.
We can make do without the unit for a couple of weeks as I bought some standalone heaters and during the day it is not too bad.
So I decided to have a look at things myself......
1) Powered off the unit by tripping the breakers.
2) Removed the fan housing from the outdoor unit. It was a little heavy but managed to lift it.
3) The fan seemed to be ceased up. I could not turn it while it was mounted in the unit.
4) I was able to get the motor to rotate by hand by giving it a quick sharp jolt (turing the Fan Blades by hand). Now the fan rotates freely by hand.
5) I decided to connect the fan back to the unit and power on again.
- I put the breakers back in
- Turned the thermostat from off to heat
6) The fan still did not spin. The unit is making a humming sound, which the tech told me was defrost mode.

So now is there something I can do to determine if the motor is truely shot?

I could go ahead and order a new motor and defrost board but would like to determine what is truely wrong before I go ahead and start buying stuff.

The motor is EMERSON Model K55HXFHD-7740 200-230v 60 Hz 1.9 amps

What do you all think?
Is there anyone in the Fountain Hills area that could help me out?

 

I asked another company and they came up with similar prices :-(
I am in Fountain Hills Arizona.
We can make do without the unit for a couple of weeks as I bought some standalone heaters and during the day it is not too bad.
So I decided to have a look at things myself......
1) Powered off the unit by tripping the breakers.
2) Removed the fan housing from the outdoor unit. It was a little heavy but managed to lift it.
3) The fan seemed to be ceased up. I could not turn it while it was mounted in the unit.
4) I was able to get the motor to rotate by hand by giving it a quick sharp jolt (turing the Fan Blades by hand). Now the fan rotates freely by hand.
5) I decided to connect the fan back to the unit and power on again.
- I put the breakers back in
- Turned the thermostat from off to heat
6) The fan still did not spin. The unit is making a humming sound, which the tech told me was defrost mode.

So now is there something I can do to determine if the motor is truely shot?

I could go ahead and order a new motor and defrost board but would like to determine what is truely wrong before I go ahead and start buying stuff.

The motor is EMERSON Model K55HXFHD-7740 200-230v 60 Hz 1.9 amps

What do you all think?
Is there anyone in the Fountain Hills area that could help me out?

wish i was in that area.......we are getting our first heavy snow of the year and ide rather not be here.......it sounds like the start windings are bad .......replace the motor, and see how it runs....my money says it is all that is wrong.

 

Follow harlyriders advice replace the motor NOW. Then try starting the unit.

If you took the top off and the motor was tight/seized it's shot.

Oh replace the motor capacitor at the same time you replace the motor.

 

Will replace the motor

I will send for a new motor and run cap and see what happens.

Is there a way to bypass the defrost board in the. Case that the new motor does not run?

Thanks

 

well yes, but to be honest i wouldent recomend doing it. If your unit was not a HP it would get the motor power straight off the L2 of contactor.

 

Let us know how you made out after the change out.

 

I will do.
I am ordering the motor right now $188 seems about the right price.
I will exchange that with the one that is installed now and see what happens. I guess the worst that happens is it is something in addition to the motor and I go ahead and order the defrost board which I have seen for around $50.
I will get the run cap as well when I get the motor.

Will keep you posted

 

I funny side note here.
HarleyRider's signature is "HVAC repair is not Rocket science.........Guess thats why i don't work at NASA".

Well guess what I worked for British Aerospace and designed guidance systems for rockets so I guess I was trained in Rocket science Now here I am attempting HVAC repairs. The control mechanisms and sensors for the HVAC do not seem too far removed from those of a Rocket guidance system.

So perhaps I think HarleyRider's signature is kinda incorrect in a way because HVAC is somewhat similar to Rocket science

 

I funny side note here.
HarleyRider's signature is "HVAC repair is not Rocket science.........Guess thats why i don't work at NASA".

Well guess what I worked for British Aerospace and designed guidance systems for rockets so I guess I was trained in Rocket science Now here I am attempting HVAC repairs. The control mechanisms and sensors for the HVAC do not seem too far removed from those of a Rocket guidance system.

So perhaps I think HarleyRider's signature is kinda incorrect in a way because HVAC is somewhat similar to Rocket science

wow.........should i ask for a raise?

 

I would agree that the motor is shot. Phoenix is very very hard on outdoor motors. The motors are air cooled and given the high temps in phx in the summer (112 to 119) combined with heat of the condensor, plus the heat of the sun. Motors fail a lot. There are a couple of failure modes, but it sounds like you had a stuck bearing or that the winding had overheated and expanded, then stuck. I would replace that motor asap. but, please take care of the fan blade. First make sure you mark the top so you dont get it on backwards. Then be careful of bending it!!! once its all in and back in place on the condenser, turn the blade a couple of times to make sure it does not hit. and be sure to tighten down the set screw on the shaft!!! and dont work on the machine unless you know the breaker is off and you have told everyone in the house that the breaker is off and not to turn it on!!!!

good luck and ill bet you a buck that the "board" is just fine....

 

Thanks bobinphx

Those are some very wise words.
I am sure the fan can do a lot of damage if it is not mounted correctly and if it started up before I have everything installed correctly.
I have all the breakers off at the moment and will double check them multiple times before I install the new motor.
Good tip on marking the fan to ensure I have it up the right way.
I am having trouble getting it off the motor shaft I think I will put tap the shaft with hammer and some material that is smaller than the shaft rather then trying to force off the fan and risk damaging it.

 

Sand the motor shaft, lubricate with WD40, hold the shaft still with an adjustable cresent wrench, and spin the blade off by hand. No hammering, that will mushroom the shaft end.

 

Thanks for the tip on getting the fan blade off.

I now have my new motor

It is a different model number than I ordered :-(

What I ordered was a MOT2427596A which said it was a replacement for EMERSON Model K55HXFHD-7740.

What I got was a Dayton 4M226J.

The 4M226J looks like the same specs for RPM HP Volts Amps, etc. but has extra wires.
It has an additional Brown/white and a green.
There is a diagram on the side of the motor which shows 3 wire installation.
Basically the brown/white has to be insulated (taped off).

I will need to put connectors on the black and purple as they do not have any.

What do I do with the green? Tape it off or ground it to the frame?

Then there is a pair of black and white wires with a revesible plug/socket. The purpose is to make the motor run clockwise or counter clockwise. Which way should I make it run?

Want to make sure I get everything right before I go ahead and install.

Also the shaft is very long. I can go ahead and cut it off with a hacksaw but is there any issue with just leaving it long?

Ah yes the motor shows a 5mfd cap on the diagram but my unit has a 7.5mfd and I ordered a 7.5mfd. Will that be an issue?

Thanks all for your help

 

Thanks for the tip on getting the fan blade off.

I now have my new motor

It is a different model number than I ordered :-(

What I ordered was a MOT2427596A which said it was a replacement for EMERSON Model K55HXFHD-7740.

What I got was a Dayton 4M226J.

The 4M226J looks like the same specs for RPM HP Volts Amps, etc. but has extra wires.
It has an additional Brown/white and a green.
There is a diagram on the side of the motor which shows 3 wire installation.
Basically the brown/white has to be insulated (taped off).

I will need to put connectors on the black and purple as they do not have any.

What do I do with the green? Tape it off or ground it to the frame?

Then there is a pair of black and white wires with a revesible plug/socket. The purpose is to make the motor run clockwise or counter clockwise. Which way should I make it run?

Want to make sure I get everything right before I go ahead and install.

Also the shaft is very long. I can go ahead and cut it off with a hacksaw but is there any issue with just leaving it long?

Ah yes the motor shows a 5mfd cap on the diagram but my unit has a 7.5mfd and I ordered a 7.5mfd. Will that be an issue?

Thanks all for your help

the green can go to one of the mounting screws, you want the fan turning so that it pushes air out the top of the unit, yes you can cut the shaft if there is a clearance issue.....You have to use the proper size cap....

 

So with the cap are you saying I now need to order a 5mfd instead of the 7.5mfd that was in place in the unit?

Is it the motor that dictates the size of the cap or the unit?

So to recap (pardon the pun) the unit has a 7.5mfd cap I ordered a new 7.5mfd cap. On the motor diagram it shows a 5mfd cap.
So do I now need to order a 5mfd cap or keep with the 7.5mfd?

 

The cap must be the size the "motor" calls for.

 

Most universal motors have a plastic drain plug on each side. Remove the drain plug on the shaft end to get a longer life from your new motor.