[viper]

If my project took your list as an exam, I'm happy to report that I would've gotten a solid B, as most of this will be done. But
• We won't have a post at the side staircase, which I assume is the staircase you mean.
• We wont have a post end of each beam, because the upper side beams will attach along the top plates and corner studs where the addition meets the original house. And the biggest weight is supported by the three 4x6 (orange) columns. There is no money left for another week of tearing up the house to add columns on each side of the house there. Trying to argue load and numbers with the workers was pointless, as they're skeptical about any advice that trumps their experience, especially from an anonymous online critic, and I'm not educated in beam loading enough to be convincing. That part of the roof support is what it is atm, and I'll have to wait and see how things shake out without putting a lot more money into it I don’t have.

• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •

If you can shrug off this isn't an ideal roof support, I do have one more question to anyone who's read this far, and an idea I’d be interested in any feedback:

How to best support the two outer columns (#1&2) on the cantilevered part of the deck? There isn’t a pylon directly under #1 because there’s a septic line there, and #2 was setup to match symmetrically. The overhang is about 20". I didn't know how we'd support them when I sketched this rendering, other than there'd be 45° bracing under the joists to the pylon posts:
View attachment 761761

Would you agree - given this cantilever situation - the best solution would be that 6x6 column extends below the deck surface, is sandwiched between two joists, with bolts through them? This is how we plan to install deck posts, but these 2 columns support a good deal of the roof. Would all that weight bearing on the 4 bolts on each column would be enough, or is there some fastener available for better support?
View attachment 761759

I sketched up a steel “collar” idea for this situation, so the bottom of this 6x6 column would rest on a base solidly supported by the joists. It wouldn’t be too ridiculously challenging to fabricate… Would it offer enough add’l support to be worth fussing with? (Should I patent it? lol)
View attachment 761760

There are a LOT of mental flags for me here that I really think you need a local engineer. I realize people see something standing for a bit and feel it's 'right', but if a design load comes through, you're hosed. You have arguments with construction workers/contractors posing as engineers is concerning. Who is steering the ship here?

If I read this right, you are in AK? As in serious snow loading and possibly other factors? Do you even know your design criteria in your county? You DO have specs in that county.

I noticed the discontinuous columns from roof to ground. That is one of the very first things I don't like as well as no clear shear paths. Many structures like this end up driving loads back to the main structure, which was never designed for the extra loads. You need help!

I sound like a broken record because we are always contacted AFTER the mess. People contact a "licensed contractor" but don't realize they have zero structural education or competence 99% of the time. It means nothing but they paid the government for a piece of paper. In many cases, an engineer and steer a job down the right path and force contractors to do the job right. As we have said around here, "never enough time or money to do the job right the first time, but they find both when doing it twice.

 

[viper]

Appreciate your input. I don't expect everyone to read this entire thread, but I believe most if not all of your points have been addressed - if not solved - already. Other than tearing a hole in the middle of the house for another ridge beam column, I think the roof is pretty well supported for conditions here in rural S. Ohio. Compared to many Appalachian dwellings, this structure is very over-engineered LOL. The unlicensed local "builders" quit for no good reason, other than not wanting to work, lots of rain, and too much input from a self-educated homeowner. So its just me now woot

I asked a basic question. Do you know your loading criteria in your county?

 

[viper]

No.
I wouldn't know who to ask what in Lawrence county OH. Its rural and no inspectors. I'm here to get structural advice rather than winging it. A licensed contractor friend in LA has been helping with advice. Theres this - https://lawrencecountyauditor.org/Forms/GetFile?fileId=2020. and this

Q: Do I need a permit to build a house in the county?
A: The County Engineer is not responsible under Ohio Law to regulate building in Lawrence County.

The only reason I step in on some of these structural threads is to advocate for safe/sound structures. We are the people that are called AFTER it falls down and kills someone. It's unfortunate that people are fed the BS that a contractor knows what they are doing. They don't! Unless they have P.E. or S.E. in their title.

Your project is perplexing and I realize it will be a LONG road towards education AND your job is already started, so..... You sort of showed up to the racetrack without an engine.

In the structural world, we always say, "follow the loads". If I had a dime for every time someone told me "it's over built" or "it should hold".

Your county absolutely has load criteria, even if not a single official has a clue. The county has adopted a building code somewhere. IBC. Within that, the geological data is there. Snow, wind, temps, etc, etc.

What I see in your project so far is a lateral loading nightmare! I try to drive this home to people. Stand in the wind with a 4x8 sheet. Feel that force! If that wind is say 60mph, you won't be able to control it! That is only 32sf!

Another factor I just can't drive home to people is UPLIFT! Your open structure is an airplane wing!!!!! It WILL want to take flight. People are obsessed with down force but don't realize what a light breeze will do. Then you have to consider unbalanced loading because you are in snow country and a little wind with snow and you can get a substantial imbalance on the roof.

 

[viper]

Without an engine? LOL. But dire warnings and claims absorbed. Theres still time to add more supports within reason, in addition to the four 4x6 columns anchored below grade to the concrete foundation and nine 6x6s anchored 3' deep into concrete, diagonal braces, blocking, rafter ties and all the Strongtie connectors tieing everything everywhere.

What I am ultimately trying to drive home here is that there is a sequence of events that are not being considered.

1. Have a dimensional plan. Looks like you had that.
2. Then you assess loads.
3. Then you can select building materials and design to satisfy the load requirements.

You missed #2! You do NOT design a structure with "the wind doesn't blow much" or "we don't usually get snow". It doesn't work that way, or at least safely. We design for worst case scenarios. It doesn't always come down to a structural collapse! It could mean settling, or the structure pulling away from the home.

You're asking for structural advise and I am giving that to you, but you won't hear it! Even an architect mentioned about the different loads. You can't size ANY beam without knowing the loads! You can't! Finding the local loading criteria would be the smartest first step! You also cannot design any footing or embedded column without understanding soil pressures and allowables.

We are allowed to deviate from code, but only when supported with math and reason.

Let me at least try to reason with you with a basic example. Dead loads (DL). That is the weight of the structure. That is all ultimately driven to the ground. Not having any data for your area, I might apply 1500psf. We actually factor that for depth but let's keep it simple. So a column with 1sf of area in the ground can support 1500psf. Now that is NOT just the DL, that is the greatest of load combinations DL+LL(live load) or S (snow). I would guess that your actual loads are at least 20psf for S. If there is a 100sf area of the roof that is loading into a column, that is 100sf*20=2000lbs. That is just the S. Then you probably have 1000lbs of DL in that area so we are at 3000lbs as DL+S. So you need 2sf area for your footing to be "right".

This is not accounting for any lateral or moment loads right now. As for uplift, I have no idea what wind criteria you have but all wind load ends up as bearing (down) or uplift. Uplift gets credit against DL so you get to deduct that from your uplift calcs generally.

I am just sharing a bit to enlighten the path you SHOULD be taking here. Assess and understand the loads. Then you can select the design and materials. Then you build to your design.

But I will share, from experience, what I have seen. People tie into an existing structure without a single thought that the existing structure was not designed for the extra load. Those loads must be considered and mitigated. I've seen roof trusses break, foundations break, walls buckle, etc.

People are eager to plant lumber and make something. No one wants to bother with the boring part......the math.

 

[viper]

The intent of this post is asking for help to identify what areas of this design are most likely to cause what kind of problem, and what can be done to lessen or overcome them while there’s still time. Your "structural advice" is that I should hire an engineer or this project will fail

Estimated 6,500 People Injured in Deck Collapses Since 2003

About 6,500 people have been rushed to emergency rooms with injuries from collapsing balconies and porches, while 29 have been killed, since 2003.

www.nbcnews.com

To be more blunt sir, what you are doing is both careless and dangerous! You won't be reasoned with. I can clearly see that. DIY does NOT need to equal "shoddy". The red flags I see are so numerous, I can't even explain! Literally no concept of loads or load paths. You cannot size a beam without knowing the loads.

I tried to provide simple examples of how these projects need to go, FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY, but you will continue.
I can share many horror stories, and I even shared a link where contractors 'think it will hold'. I've tried to help you see the light. Nearly all of the structural failures I see are a result of being built wrong. And insurance companies use those findings as a reason to not pay on a claim.

 

[viper]

Good news is I unexpectedly found a structural engineer Friday evening through my realtor (after searching for days online with only bad news) who was able to come over right away. He spent 2 hours early this morning going over everything, and said much of what you did. He's certain theres nothing in my basic design that can't be improved and reinforced (despite Prof. Chicken Littles pompous derision, although I’m glad to have an SE look at it). I worked and studied hard so this would not be a shoddy build, and have gone above and beyond in many ways.

Something I said must have gotten through because you called an engineer! The things he has that I certain don't is your LOADING CRITERIA, and a hands on look at this! People continuously insult my abrasive delivery, but it's mostly that I've seen this a time or two. If he has his PE license, you are likely in good hands and you won't regret the info. Hopefully you can then advocate for that piece of mind rather than guesswork.

One thing you must come to understand is it is both dangerous and unethical for ANY P.E. to give haphazard structural guidance with nothing but a couple pics. No different than a doctor without seeing you.

Yes, I saw major flags and I said something.....which is better than nothing! Remember that!

 

[viper]

Connection between D and A are supplemental. The real crunch is connection between D and A to column 1! That is where the load meets the road! Since this is all dim lumber, why not shorten things 6" so you can get a more direct connection? Load from A is up there and trying to drive load with a 6" offset puts buckling concerns in that column. Not easy with a 6x6 but far from ideal.

Move column or shorten design. Need proper loading in columns.

 

[viper]

What is it? I could pick on it but I doubt anyone wants to hear it. Some components appear hell for stout, which prob why they gasped when it was floppy in the framing stage.

Always remember that not all construction methods are right for all areas. Some just 'get away with it' because their build site is very protected from mother nature.