Check the capacitor with a meter (which has capacitance function) and if it's good, ohm out the compressor windings.

likelyhood that new cap is bad is low.

 

I have this Multimeter which seems to have a capacitance function but excuse my ignorance as i have used ohm meters but how do i use the capacitance feature? What 2 wires would i need to check? What does "ohm out the compressor windings" mean?

thanks for your help,
Art

 

With power off - you'll need to make sure the capacitor is discharged just in case (safest is with a bleed resistor, many just short the terminals looking away)- then disconnect the wires, set meter to capacitance and check it.

It's the mode to the left of "hz" mode.

 

Sorry if I have too many questions. So my understanding is I would need to check Ohms using the setting you stated between two wires. How do I tell which two wires. I included a simple diagram showing the different group of wires the top of the capacitor. Also if I short out the capacitor running something across two of the terminals, which two would that be?

Thanks again for your help.

Art

 

Not sure of the sequence of operation but your condenser fan operates off a different output on the control board than the compressor contactor output. Could be off on high pressure if the unit has a manual reset HP switch try resetting it. Red arrow in pic below would be where it is if you have one.

Are there any fault codes displayed on the control screen?

 

I will look to see if the reset switch is there tomorrow in the light of morning. There are no error messages on the control panel. That was the same thing that happened with last year's problem when the capacitor failed.

Sorry if this should be obvious - but is the capacitor showing in the wiring diagram?

Thanks for your help.

Art

 

It's probably not the capacitor. They normally live longer than a year, and that's a fairly expensive multi universal cap. (6 capacitors in 1 case.) That particular capacitor is in the higher quality tier. (I think it's the mars TURBO 200, which ranges from $70-120 usd)

 

I reset the HP switch and now the heater isn't running at all. It is now throwing error codes starting at 2309 and slowly continuing to increment now at 2316.

Any guidance is appreciated.
Art

 

edited - Don't see that in the manual.

 

Sorry a "DUH" moment. When I turned the power back on it really didn't go on and was stuck in the 24 hour clock mode. Back to square one checking after resetting the HP switch

 

When you hit the hp switch, did it actually click in - if it didn't, it wasn't tripped to begin with.

You may need to set clock/temp after cutting the power, i wouldn't know.
Don't know if anyone here is very familiar with pool heatpumps - though the operating principle and theory is basically the same as for space heating/cooling heatpumps and knowledge is transferable.

What is it doing now?

 

I don't think it's the capacitor to be honest.

The high pressure switch should never trip - that can be caused by the pump not moving water through the condenser heat exchanger or too little. but i would assume these units have flow detecting switches to avoid that problem - would need to look into it more.

Is it throwing an error code now?
Fan running but not compressor?

 

Fan is running and not the compressor. No error code. The unit does have a flow detection switch. I had to change it 2 years ago and that does throw an error code.

 

Well at this point I am going to give up since I think I am a bit over my head. I have someone coming Wednesday to hopefully fix the heater. The unit is 6 years old. Is there a typical life span for heat pump pool heaters?

Thanks for the help and I will post what if any fix is made.

Art

 

Well it looks like I fried the compressor. Guy that came to fix it gave me an education on heat pump style pool heaters. Basically explained they are not meant to heat a pool with a wide temperature variance and should only be used with about a 10 degree differential from outdoor temperature to pool desired temperature. I am in NY and our temperature has been pretty chilly at night so with me running my pool filter 8 hours a day and the nights being cool it looks like I overloaded the unit. The heater is 6 years old and he said they typically last around 8 years. So now I am exploring a propane pool heater. My pool is a 12 by 24 above ground pool, 4 ft deep - so I calculated a little less than 7000 gallons. Now my headache starts as I am trying to determine first a reliable brand and what size I need. I also need to have a propane tank added and trying to determine the appropriate size tank for the heater. I am also trying to determine the cost differential between a heat pump and propane heater. I have researched some sites but so far I am finding them more confusing than helpful.

Thanks for the help.
Art

 

Well it looks like I fried the compressor. Guy that came to fix it gave me an education on heat pump style pool heaters. Basically explained they are not meant to heat a pool with a wide temperature variance and should only be used with about a 10 degree differential from outdoor temperature to pool desired temperature. I am in NY and our temperature has been pretty chilly at night so with me running my pool filter 8 hours a day and the nights being cool it looks like I overloaded the unit. The heater is 6 years old and he said they typically last around 8 years. So now I am exploring a propane pool heater. My pool is a 12 by 24 above ground pool, 4 ft deep - so I calculated a little less than 7000 gallons. Now my headache starts as I am trying to determine first a reliable brand and what size I need. I also need to have a propane tank added and trying to determine the appropriate size tank for the heater. I am also trying to determine the cost differential between a heat pump and propane heater. I have researched some sites but so far I am finding them more confusing than helpful.

Thanks for the help.
Art

10°f difference shouldn't hurt them at all. They may struggle with the heat loss, but that shouldn't hurt it.

Hayward boilers are somewhat disposable, but they aren't bad for what you pay. They also sell propane/natural gas boilers. Expect to change them every 5-8 years.

 

In most places propane is expensive as hell.

Low outdoor temp do not damage heatpumps, they just don't give enough capacity.

What exactly did the tech say is wrong with the compressor?
Mechanical or electrical failure? how was it diagnosed?

 

The wires on top of the compressor was melted. He said if he tried to fix it it would just happen again.

Your point on the cost of propane has me thinking. I looked at one website that estimated it would cost me over $500 more for propane. The other thing the tech suggested was to use a solar blanket so the heater works less.

Do you think a heat pump type is ok? Is there a better brand than Hayward?

Thanks,
Art

 

10°f difference shouldn't hurt them at all. They may struggle with the heat loss, but that shouldn't hurt it.

Hayward boilers are somewhat disposable, but they aren't bad for what you pay. They also sell propane/natural gas boilers. Expect to change them every 5-8 years.

I also saw Raypak heaters. Are they any better? I was thinking a propane heater would last longer but it sounds like u would need to replace them as often as the heat pump type.

 

I also saw Raypak heaters. Are they any better? I was thinking a propane heater would last longer but it sounds like u would need to replace them as often as the heat pump type.

Raypak is owned by Rheem. They are ok. I struggle to get parts for them.

Hayward is independent, and owned by a private equity firm that was planning on turning it public.

Both make them small and hard to work on. Chlorine and/or salt really beat them up, so you have to expect breakdowns. The heat exchangers will leak after 5-8 years, unless you get lucky. The other components will last longer if you keep chlorine vapours away from it.


I would have fixed the wiring and make sure it wouldn't melt again.

 

The wires on top of the compressor was melted. He said if he tried to fix it it would just happen again.

He didn't even try? Sure, it may happen again in a few years. I'd get another tech out to look. If the terminal is burnt off they make a repair kit. A burnt wire is a sorry excuse to condemn a compressor.

Supco EC10 Easy Connect Compressor Terminal Repair Kit, 3 10-AWG Wires, 3' Long: Electronic Relays: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Supco EC10 Easy Connect Compressor Terminal Repair Kit, 3 10-AWG Wires, 3' Long: Electronic Relays: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

 

Hmm. Now that iknow the problem I can take a look. To use the repair kit do I cut the old wires and splice I'm the new? Are they soldered?

I don't have a meter to check the amp draw. I know the circuit breaker didn't trip

 

The wires on top of the compressor was melted. He said if he tried to fix it it would just happen again.

Your point on the cost of propane has me thinking. I looked at one website that estimated it would cost me over $500 more for propane. The other thing the tech suggested was to use a solar blanket so the heater works less.

Do you think a heat pump type is ok? Is there a better brand than Hayward?

Thanks,
Art

You don't replace a unit because of damaged/melted wires.

Need to fix which is easy and check the amp draw.

I think you got a salesman and not a real tech.

 

Take a pic of the wires going to the compressor terminals, you may not even need the repair kit. Shut off power first, post pic here.

 

Pictures attached. It looks like the ground wire burnt off and separated. The other wires insulation melted a bit but still connected. The stud for the ground looks pretty roasted but I can try to clean it up. I don't see any insulation on the ground but don't know if that is the way it is. I can pull it back in the wrapper to see what's there. The guy disconnected one wire to keep it from running but i believe i know where that goes. Should I try new connections and see what happens? Should I solder the ends or crimping is enough?

Thanks for your help.
Art

 

I was probably a bit harsh on your tech. The damage is more than a burnt wire. The common terminal looks like it's gone. Don't know if there is enough left to attach a repair wire to it.

 

I was able to clean up the terminal and put the wire back on using a straight pin connector for the black wire. The red and white seem ok. The compressor still isn't going on. The fan comes on strong but then slows down and runs slow. No codes. Not sure if I made that worse. If I wanted to check for voltage at the compressor how would I do that? Not an expert in 240v. I assume red and black are hot but where would I connect the ground test lead?

Thanks

 

The guy disconnected one wire to keep it from running but i believe i know where that goes.

Did you connect it? Does the contactor draw in? 240V between White (common) and Black (Run). You shouldn't be measuring any voltage to ground. Did you test the run cap?

 

Did you connect it? Does the contactor draw in? 240V between White (common) and Black (Run). You shouldn't be measuring any voltage to ground. Did you test the run cap?

I did connect it but the compressor did not kick on. I didn't test power as I wasn't sure how. I have a multimeter that checks 120 but i don't think it does 240. If your question about the contactor draw in was hearing the compressor click on - I didn't. I did not test the cap as I am still unsure how to do it. The technician looked like he checked it but one thing he did was check for voltage in the red wire from the cap which I believe goes to the compressor but it showed no voltage. He acknowledged that wasn't right but did not say the cap was bad. He then moved on to seeing the wires fried on the compressor and stopped there.

I really appreciate all the help you have provided. I am sorry I am not more experienced to make this less painful.

Art

 

The compressor and wiring should be ohmed out - this is done with power off.
If that tests fine, test live if comfortable to see if power is being applied to the compressor.
If there's no power being applied, need to work backwards and figure out why.

 

I took resistance readings on the compressor with the wires disconnected and they are shown in the diagram. Please let me know what that means and if I should look further or give up .

Thanks again for your help.
Art

 

Those numbers are good.

You'll need to see if during a call for heating, you have power where indicated (240v being applied to compressor)

If you don't have the compressor is not the culprit, will need to see if that contactor (km1) is getting power on the coil which closes it.

When the compressor is electrically good and when wired properly on a good cap, when power is applied, it will at least try to start and hum, shut off on overload after a few seconds if it doesn't start up. (failures can be mechanical)

 

Those numbers are good.

You'll need to see if during a call for heating, you have power where indicated (240v being applied to compressor)

View attachment 755511

If you don't have the compressor is not the culprit, will need to see if that contactor (km1) is getting power on the coil which closes it.

When the compressor is electrically good and when wired properly on a good cap, when power is applied, it will at least try to start and hum, shut off on overload after a few seconds if it doesn't start up. (failures can be mechanical)

Now you are making me think I made a bad assumption. The tech disconnected a wire to keep the heater from running. I am less sure I know where it goes and struggling with the wire diagram. At first I thought it went to the four terminal block which is missing a connector but now wondering if it goes to KM1. One side of KM1 has a similar black wire on the bottom and wondering if the opposite side should as well. Granted that is me guessing instead of properly reading the wire diagram. I am going to study it to see if I can figure it out. The first attached picture is the side of KM1 with a black wire attached and the second shows KM1 without a similar wire and also shows the 4 terminal block with a missing wire.

Thanks.

 

I found a picture wh8ch showed me where that wire went and I connected it and the compressor kicked on. Thank you thank you thank you for your help. Now I have to see if it burns the wire again or holds up at least for this season. I really appreciate your patience with helping me.

Art

 

If you have a clamp meter that checks amps, check the compressor amp draw on common/cc.

Really sounds the guy who checked it is a total crook - disabling the unit and claiming no point of fixing burned wire.

 

He did tell me he was disconnecting the wire so it wouldn't go on. I didn't see which one at the time. The wire burnt bad enough to break off so i guess having a hot wire floating around isn't ideal. He wasn't try to sell me a new unit. He said I should get it on my own to save money.

I don't have a clamp meter but will ask around to see if I can borrow one. What would a normal amp draw should be? Thanks again for your help.
Art

 

consult the compressor amp draw rating on the rating plate.