[lenaitch]

Tell us how you can order a vehicle directly from the factory. I'm only aware that you can do that with Tesla.

 

[lenaitch]

My terminology is a bit off. I will order one thru a dealer if necessary if I cannot find what I want on a lot or they are jerks and won't deal fairly. Then I can skip the window tint and other add ons as I will order exactly what I want.

I have the luxury of doing this over 6 months as my 2011 Escape will go to my BIL and Nephew and nobody is in a hurry to get it. I have never " factory ordered " one so I don't know the process. I am also looking at the Maxda SUVs and maybe they are not in such short supply as Toyotas?

We have this fixed rate / price on the window pricing in Manitoba so they cannot jerk you around with a lot of hidden fees. I am the Jedi Master when it comes to getting rid of them but it is a huge hassle but fun. I give them the hairy eyebrows and tell them I am an Engineer and have done my research and they quickly realize there will be NO game playing on their part. They are not dealing with Johnny Bananas. ( Eddie Murphy quote ).

Unless Toyota is different then every other manufacturer, you can't simply pick and choose options like a Chinese food menu and have the factory Build Your Car. We haven't been able to do that for at least a decade, probably longer. The Build Your Vehicle section on their websites means you get to pick the trim level and everything that comes with it. Maybe and engine option; rarely and transmission option, then you get to pick your colour (usually limited by trim level) and maybe rims. Unless Toyota has a 'winter package', a block heater is likely a dealer-installed item. It used to be that every car shipped to Canada had a block heater - not any more.

If Toyota is like all the other imports (don't know about domestic manufacturers), all of their inventory is on a dealer's lot somewhere; they have no stockyards. Dealers can swap with another dealer (some geographically restrict them) but the requesting dealer has to have something the other dealer wants in exchange. Sometimes it can work out for both. Different markets have different demand models.

They are popular but I would not buy a Hyundai or Kia after seeing videos of the Class Action Lawsuit for engines and some paint problems and the way some people got treated.

Toyota is recalling a bunch of truck engines due to some manufacturing issue with some dies and debris that did not get cleaned out of the engines. However in my 40+ yrs of car ownership it is VERY very rare they have recalls so this one is a " one off " IMO. Like Honda power products they seem to be very well built and stand the test of time.

I tend to buy high end lines like Sony and Bosch and firmly believe you get what you pay for. However not everyone can afford them so there is a market/buyer for everything.

They all have problems. We're on our second trouble-free Hyundai, including the ones with the reported engine problems. According to Transport Canada, Toyota had 246 recalls between 2014 and 2024; Honda 272; Hyundai 176.

I wouldn't buy an off-lease vehicle either. Maybe the lessee treated it nice, but for a couple of years in the police service I drove leased vehicles for special operations and we drove them like we stole them.

My first Honda Ridgeline was two years old. I got a sweet deal on a great truck but drove six hours to get it. I'm retired so have the time and absolutely would do that again. Way back in the day, wasn't Steinbeck the auto mecca of western Canada?

 

[lenaitch]

Yeah this internet technology is a double edged sword. Great for prices and info but the dealers know you have it also and they all have to be pretty close in pricing so there is no room for haggling.

B4 there was all kinds of gimmicks and deals and if you knew how to play the game like a Pro you could do better than the guy who knew nothing. Maybe you got a great deal but the next 9 suckers got taken. Dealer can afford to win 9 and lose on 1 or not make a huge sale.

Most likely I will be ordering one to get only exactly what I want. No moonroof or other add ons plus I need a electric plug in engine warmer block heater in my climate which is not standard anymore.

I still get the sense that you think you can pick and choose individual options or features from a list. You will be disappointed. You get to pick trim levels and all that does - or doesn't - come with it. According to their website, a block heater is a dealer-installed accessory so you are good there ($573.50 !!! - even their 8' extension cord is over $47. Yikes)

 

[lenaitch]

I am just starting the research process and yeah I will find out if they have a Winter pkg etc. I may go Toyota or Mazda or maybe Audi if they all are jerks and each brand has different pkgs.

Plus I doubt the BIL wants my vehicle until Nephew graduates in 2026. However he may want it for himself sooner so I need to be ready to " rock and roll " and get one sooner if he does and is in a good mood. 50/50 chance he wants it sooner and maybe I want to unload it on him anyway. Sounds like a soap opera eh?

He had a Mazda Tribute for a LONG time which is the same as my Escape and loved that SUV. He may want it sooner or change his mind if he thinks I am being a jerk. Either way eventually I may need a new one and need to learn how the car sales biz works nowadays. Lot has changed since 2011.

We had the first year (2000) Tribute when it and the Escape were re-badged sisters. It was a great vehicle. We got about 120k on the front disc brakes and sold it with about 210k with the original rear drums and it passed a safety.

 

[lenaitch]

The current Mazda CX-5 and non-hybrid versions of the Toyota RAV4 have automatic transmissions.

I'm not sure Mazda has a CVT in any of its fleet but stand to be corrected. The missus wants a new compact SUV next spring and I'm definitely not sold on CVTs so the field is very limited. She's sweet on the Subaru so I'll have to work on that. I'm leaning towards something in Mazda's CX-series. We've had good luck with two Hyundais but the new ones are butt ugly (besides, they switched to CVTs).

Southwestern Ontario

Except for being an extension of Tornado Alley, the humidity and lake effect snow squalls. West of London it's flatter than milk on a plate so maybe Yuri would feel at home (Mennonites too).

 

[lenaitch]

I remember that.
They were using welding power supplies to try to thaw the pipes.
I guess if that didn't work you had to wait till spring.

They used to do that in a town I lived in northern Ontario. Some years before they had installed sanitary and storm sewers, curbs sidewalks and paved all the streets. Some streets had their grades lowered for some reason - maybe drainage. My driveway had quite a drop from the sidewalk to the road. In doing so, they apparently left some water lines too close to the surface and a deep cold could freeze them. If that happened the town would show up with a genny on a pick-up free of charge and connect a street shutoff to your outside tap. It didn't happen all that often but they were ready for it.

I will still buy a new vehicle with a Winter pkg

You may be dating yourself. To most manufacturers, a 'winter package' is winter tires and steel rims (at dealer prices). As mentioned, a block heater is usually a dealer-installed option. Some manufacturers may still install them at the factory for the Canadian market but I highly doubt it.

Gone are the days of a 'package' including things like block heater, rubber floor mats, winter wipers, etc. Back in the day some even installed a different thermostat.

 

[lenaitch]

FYI Many newer model Fords are rebadged MAZDAS.

So, your statements that you like MAZDA, but don't like FORD is counteracting each other.

ED

Really? Ford hasn't had a partnership with Mazda since they sold their stake in 2015.

As Yuri mentioned, Mazda has a co-production facility in Huntsville AL although I'm not sure how much parts or tech sharing they do.

 

[lenaitch]

And on that note, I saw the attached this morning.

Nissan and Honda agreed to a merger. Will their cars get cheaper in Canada? - National | Globalnews.ca

 

[lenaitch]

Yes absolutely. When I bought a new car, I bought it through Costco. You just go to one of their dealers and tell them you're a Costco customer. I lived in Vegas at the time, and the closest was Phoenix. There is no dickering, no going back and forth to his/her manager, etc. They give you the best deal up front and save you money. You can try it out on a test run and see if it works for you. I would never buy any other way again.

Costco doesn't sell vehicles in Canada. Some manufacturers have a 'Costco member discount', which I believe is $500.

 

[lenaitch]

YouTube is full of videos about Hyundai engines and Ford Ecoboost engines going bad with poor engine designs. Rental car agencies have plenty of them for sale just past their warranty.

Perhaps. Most auto experience is anecdotal but we are on Hyundai #2 - including one with the engine recall - both trouble free. With the Ecoboost, I didn't think it was across the entire line but I don't really follow it.

Back when we were helping our daughter look for her first car the lots were full of off-leave Pontiac Sunfires/Chev Cavaliers. Among other things, they went through brakes like TicTacs. Rental or lease service is often a function of bulk pricing.

 

[lenaitch]

The RAV is trucklike, noisier, more expensive, and <opinion>ugly</opinion>. The Mazda is carlike. But it does have part time 4WD and is surefooted in the snow. We bought an off-lease 2018 low end model for $20K and it still looks like the new ones. The build quality and predicted reliability are similar but I think Toyota is slipping. Sometimes it comes down to the dealer; some are real arses.

We cross-shopped Escape but they have 3 cylinder turbos and they have developed troubles; trying to get too much power out of a 3 pot. Our kids have Subarus but I don't think they are any better. My son gets taken to the cleaners every time he goes back to the dealer for some little thing.

We always buy used and drive until near-death. I look at reliability and user experience over a few years. I bought a Focus from Hertz, 1 year old, before the transmission problems came to light. I've been lucky and it still runs, 8 years later, but I can't sell it because "they all die at 90,000 miles". Off-lease is a sweet spot because it's been taken care of, still has a warranty, and the leasee had to deal with all the bugs.

If you buy new, you'll probably pay more for a new Toyota than a Mazda, but you'll get more if you sell it in a couple years. Mazda might also go bankrupt unless they merge with another sick puppy unless they come out with a decent EV. It's possible they will combine with Toyota, or Suzuki/Daihatsu/Subaru.

Our next car will be an EV but like everyone else I'm waiting for the designs to improve and prices to drop. My short list has Kia EV3, Bolt, Tesla, Volvo EC30. Cars with tailpipes are obsolete.

Following the comments on the Mazda CX series since the missus is dropping hints. Subaru owners are kinda cult-like but CVTs scare me.

Our S-in-L had a Ford Focus with dual-clutch transmission problems. It would leave him stranded essentially in neutral. From what I have read, it was a proven platform in Europe/UK before they introduced it to North America but over here, some transmission components like valve bodies were switched from metal to plastic. He made so much noise - the right way, local then corporate, fact-based w/o emotion, that they essentially bought it back from him for almost what he paid for it after about a year.

I agree that there will be more consolidation/partnerships as the need for research requires increasingly deep pockets. Honda and Toyota have already announced one.

 

[lenaitch]

I'm 'ok' when it comes to buying from a dealership, but my wife treats it like a blood sport. She's less 'combative' as we get older but still a commissioned salesperson's nightmare. There's been a few times where she has suddenly stomped out of a dealer with me in tow trying to gather up coats and brochures.

A few years ago I was helping our daughter buy her first new car and salesman at a Kia dealer was right out of the 1960s; talked to me instead of her and when he finally did focus on her it was in the 'little lady' type of tone. The only thing he was missing was the loud 'Herb Tarlek' sports coat.

My worst experience was at a Toyota dealer

Same. I do a fair bit of background research and was at a Toyota dealer, I think looking at the Tacoma, and we were discussing points I liked, points I didn't and his bottom line was always 'ya, but it's a Toyota'. I felt like saying 'ya, but I don't care'. I ended up not buying a Tacoma.

 

[lenaitch]

There is a reason sales is a career. Many folk think they can out do the sales person. A REAL sales person fulfills a need for what you want. If that then both of you got what you want. If you buy something you didn't need the sales person did you a dis-service.

I had a dear friend who I would call a professional shopper. He would invest more time and fuel driving around, shopping and driving sales people crazy than what he actually got out of the research. But what I recognized is he wanted relationship. When He got that he was dedicated. He'd still drive the sales person crazy but they both knew the game by then. All the sales person had to do was give Ernie what he wanted, no more, and it didn't have to be the best price.

Give the customer what they want. Period.

It's called 'analysis paralysis' and some people can get locked and never end up making a decision. I've caught myself doing it on some of the damnedest and insignificant things because I have the time (and a computer).

When I buy something, I ultimately want the product at a price and condition that makes me happy or is at least acceptable through a process that is professional and respectful. I'm not out to make new friends.

 

[lenaitch]

In negotiations, I always offer not to pay for dealer-installed items like Tint, Floor mats etc that sometimes adds up to $300 to $500. In my last 3 car purchases Dealers agreed. Another game they play is to come back with one number as drive out price. If they do not break it down and itemize walk out

Some companies/dealers configure all of their new cars with dealer items like Nitrogen loaded tires and 'security etching' as part of the dealer prep as soon as they roll off the truck. We've run into this with Hyundai.