[heinlein0311]

Got a question for ya's. When we had our house built I had them stub in some plumbing in the basement for a future bathroom. I finished the bathroom myself 2 years ago without a permit.

Now I'm wanting to finish off the rest of the basement and got nervous about not having a permit. I guess I'm getting older and wiser...My question is what should i do about the bathroom. Come clean? My only problem is that in one particular area that is still visible I used a vent elbow to go around a corner in one of the drain lines. (The drain line is to the sink only).....I know now thats against code. But to replace it means tearing down some walls...again, after doing research I realize it's up to the local building department to approve or not approve what I did. I'd like to hear some thoughts from the plumbers or anybody on if they think it will pass or should i not even mention the bathroom to the building department...here's a pic of the elbow...thanks!

 

[Davejss]

The reason they make us get plumbing inspections is to keep sewer gas from killing us. If they make you do some demo work, then so be it.

 

[Ghostmaker]

It will depend on your local inspector. Legal but worse case is you get to expose it all and have inspections and test.

In my jurisdiction this only occurs if a real health and safety issue exist.

 

[mako1]

The reason they make us get plumbing inspections is to keep sewer gas from killing us. If they make you do some demo work, then so be it.

+1 on this.If you are sure it's safe,I probably would not do anything myself.
If you go to sell the house in the future and the inspector catches it you will have to fix and pay for it and they will wonder why it was not permitted..Could lead to some problems depening on the city.
House for sale with 2 or whatever baths that was only permitted for one or whatever.Unpermited spaces come up when the property is for sale.In most states I know of it's full disclosure.

 

[jogr]

Yes, the papers are filled with news of people getting killed by sewer gas every day. Especially from using tight turn 90s instead of a sweep 90.

What you did on the bath is in the past. If it drains ok then leave it. Get a permit for the new work. The inspector won't be worried about the old work. He won't even notice it. Do you really think he has time to dig up your old permits?

 

[joecaption]

Nothing in your post suggest where you are, someone close by may have been better able to give you a better answer.
Makes 0 since to me not to get a permit.
What goods a bunch of reply's suggesting what someone got away with.
Do it right and there is no possible future problems.

 

[Ghostmaker]

Yes, the papers are filled with news of people getting killed by sewer gas every day. Especially from using tight turn 90s instead of a sweep 90.

What you did on the bath is in the past. If it drains ok then leave it. Get a permit for the new work. The inspector won't be worried about the old work. He won't even notice it. Do you really think he has time to dig up your old permits?

Hate to break it to you but yes we actually do look up old permits. We have a computer now with all scanned in.

 

[nap]

Hate to break it to you but yes we actually do look up old permits. We have a computer now with all scanned in.

and depending on the area, the person inspecting the home now may be the one that did the original inspection and he might just remember there was no bathroom down there the last time he inspected the place.

 

[Ghostmaker]

I just want to point out that most complaints we have on problems are un-inspected work. The inspectors are not the trades enemy or the home owners enemy. It just doesn't make much sense to me to not get inspected and pull permits. A home is usually your biggest investment. Why not make sure the work is done to current code? Why not used licensed trades that have passed exams?

And if you want to do it yourself why don't you want to do it in a correct fashion?

Oh well done with my rant.

 

[ben's plumbing]

old and wiser.....every man has to make important decisons in life ..but he always has to accept the consequences of his actions....:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[heinlein0311]

Thanks for the responses. I live about an hour north of Roanoke, VA....I called the plumber who did our original work on the house and he's going to come out and take a look at my work to see if it would pass. If not, we'll figure out a way to fix it... From the information I gave him over the phone he said he would find it hard to believe they would fail it for the use of a vent elbow, especially on a drain line for the sink.
I told him that there's eventually going to be a closet built against the same wall the drain line is in and that I could add a "cleanout" before the elbow and make a access point inside the closet. He thought that could go a long way in letting the inspector know you screwed up, and fixing the issue.

Either way, I want to make this right with a permit/inspection. We'll figure a way to get it right

 

[nap]

Btw: in my area there are fines for unpermitted work. It ends up somewhere around twice the permit costs and a royal ass chewing.

I have also seen unpermitted work to be completely removed. Not the norm but I have seen it happen.


The big question you might get is; why did the plumber do work without a permit. The inspector might have a bigger problem with that than your specific issue.

 

[Ghostmaker]

Thanks for the responses. I live about an hour north of Roanoke, VA....I called the plumber who did our original work on the house and he's going to come out and take a look at my work to see if it would pass. If not, we'll figure out a way to fix it... From the information I gave him over the phone he said he would find it hard to believe they would fail it for the use of a vent elbow, especially on a drain line for the sink.
I told him that there's eventually going to be a closet built against the same wall the drain line is in and that I could add a "cleanout" before the elbow and make a access point inside the closet. He thought that could go a long way in letting the inspector know you screwed up, and fixing the issue.

Either way, I want to make this right with a permit/inspection. We'll figure a way to get it right

Virginia follows IPC your 90 on the lavatory is legal. The problem you have is you did not pull a permit for plumbing, Electric and framing when you installed the bath. It's entirely up to your local inspector as to what happens.

 

[heinlein0311]

Understood Ghostmaker, thanks for the response....

Nap, I think you misunderstood what I meant or I could have written it poorly.... When the house was built we had the plumber put in stubs in the basement for a future bathroom. This plumber is the one that also did all the plumbing in the house which was permitted and inspected when it was built... I'm the one that did all the work on the bathroom in the basement, I ran my drain lines to the stubs. I meant that I was going to have the plumber who had done the work originally in the house come out and look at the work that I did in the basement bathroom....the actual plumber never did any work without a permit. Im the one that did the unpermitted work

 

[nap]

Ya, I realized that after a bit.

 

[heinlein0311]

Virginia follows IPC your 90 on the lavatory is legal. The problem you have is you did not pull a permit for plumbing, Electric and framing when you installed the bath. It's entirely up to your local inspector as to what happens.

I was told that you could use a regular elbow on one fixture but not a "vent elbow". Is that correct?

 

[TheEplumber]

I was told that you could use a regular elbow on one fixture but not a "vent elbow". Is that correct?

I have never known a vent 90 to be legal when used for drainage.

About the original permit- if I understand you correctly, a permit was pulled for the original house.
If that future basement ground work was done at that time it may be that the top out was permitted also. Depends on how they calculate permits.
My state figures your permit based on fixture count, which means the basement fixtures would have been permitted at the original construction but the top out and finish for them has not been approved/inspected. To pull a new permit would be "double permitting".
Your original plumber or AHJ should know this answer.

 

[Ghostmaker]

Whats a vent 90? Are you talking about a pressure 90. Only DWV fittings are allowed on drain waste and vents. All Fittings should have a hub and a DWV stamp.

So If it is a pressure 90 then no it is not legal. Will it cause a hazard. Not in my opinion.

Would I have passed it in an inspection. NO.

Your long past that point. What ever happens is up to your local building department or inspection authority. As a rule in my area it only becomes a serious problem if health or safety are an issue. Generally lack of venting. Piping of mixed plastic ABS PVC mixed. Our code that was applicable at the time was not applied.

Worst case you may have to prove you have a vent. I would think the electrical might be a bigger issue.

Did you install a fart fan? Does your toilet meet the required clearances to walls? Do you have proper clearances in front of fixtures?

I looked again at your pic it looks like you used a short sweep 1.5 inch DWV 90. As long as that fitting has a DWV stamp I would have passed it. IPC has no restrictions horizontal to horizontal on 2 inch and smaller. Also if I may point out 1 1/4 pipe is the actual size required for a lav drain. You used 1.5 inch so its bigger...

So what happens is entirely up to how your locality addresses these issues. What we do in our area does not apply in a different inspectors area.

So basically don't lose sleep over it. What happens will happen. You always have the right to appeal. If I was you I would just have them inspect your finished bath and be done with it. Feel your local inspector out. Most of us are not total ass holes.

Look up table 706.3 Virginia Plumbing Code

The fitting would be short sweep 1/4 bend (90degree) horizontal to horizontal.

a.The fittings shall only be permitted for a 2-inch or smaller fixture drain.

https://www2.iccsafe.org/states/Virginia/Plumbing/Plumbing_Frameset.html

Chapter 7 Table 706.3

 

[jaydevries]

if you have it inspected and then you do have a problem does the city come out and fix it or pay for it to be fixed :whistling2:
on a serous note i do think inspection do protect the present and future home owner

 

[Ghostmaker]

if you have it inspected and then you do have a problem does the city come out and fix it or pay for it to be fixed :whistling2:
on a serous note i do think inspection do protect the present and future home owner

To answer you question NO. It's the responsibility of the owner (home owner) to make sure all required permits are taken before starting work.

Even if a trade does it.