[riccobo4]

I have used Gardz on torn drywall and wallpaper residue and its awesome. It glues and seals everything down so solid.
Does anybody here use it on new drywall? It mentions it on the can as an application. Seems like it would be fantastic but I rarely hear it mentioned for that purpose. Its a little pricier than basic drywall primer but not by much.

 

[stick\shift]

No reason. Use any other latex primer from Zinsser.

 

[siffleur]

I have used Gardz on torn drywall and wallpaper residue and its awesome. It glues and seals everything down so solid.
Does anybody here use it on new drywall? It mentions it on the can as an application. Seems like it would be fantastic but I rarely hear it mentioned for that purpose. Its a little pricier than basic drywall primer but not by much.

I love to use it over bare drywall. I normally do 2 coats. THe first coat goes slowly, just like a white primer would as you have to work the material into the porous drywall. Even so, Gardz goes on faster than primer. The 2nd coat of Gardz (to cover the dull areas - see directions on can) goes on fast and uses half as much material as the 1st coat does. The paint will glide on almost effortlessly. If you find any dings after the 1st coat of paint, spackle them with Drydex (it doesn't flash when painted over), sand and 2nd coat.

siffleur

 

[mark sr]

I don't normally use Gardz on new drywall but have occasionally. It's a great primer/sealer but it has no coverage properties. I usually spray 1 coat of Gardz and then apply a white or tinted primer after the Gardz has dried.

 

[Gymschu]

For those of us doing it professionally, well, it isn't really a good option for new drywall. We need at least SOME pigment coverage of the drywall to allow for a quick two topcoats. I'm afraid (maybe not rightly so) that the GARDZ, although a great product, would create me having to apply a THIRD topcoat. Now, you have me raising prices and new HO's don't like added costs especially at the end of their building project.

 

[jeffnc]

First, let me congratulate you on spelling both the company name and product name correctly. I think you are the first person in the history of this forum to do so.



Gardz is a great product to use for priming drywall. I'm not sure why it doesn't get more use this way. It could just be tradition - it's not a standard white primer. However if people really want what they say they want - i.e. sealing of porous surfaces - Gardz is the way to go. For how hard some people scream about how important it is to prime, you'd think they'd want to use something that really seals. And frankly a lot of drywall primers don't seal very well.


Regarding the concern about the need for pigment coverage that Gymschu mentioned, unless you're tinting the primer a very different color to match a dark paint, I don't totall agree. A good quality paint should be able to cover that opaquely in 2 coats, IMO. But, it's possible it's an issue sometimes.


I personally usually don't use a primer over bare drywall, with the modern quality paints that are self-priming over new drywall. One reason is the primers don't solve the problems as well as they advertise, or in other words "paint and primer in one" so-to-speak paints work basically as well as a separate primer coat in this situation. If I need a "real" primer, I usually use Gardz.


I think most painters should read this.
https://jackpauhl.wordpress.com/tag/gardz/

One thing to keep in mind is that a coat of paint over Gardz is going to take longer to dry than over bare drywall. This tells you it's working, i.e. the paint has to dry exclusively out to open air - the water can't soak into the drywall and dry out faster that way.


Edit: I removed the obviously wrong line where I said new drywall is all white.

 

[jeffnc]

And by the way, if you're using a paint that can't completely saturate in 2 coats, well then I don't think primer is really going to be a better answer. My answer to that is use better (more opaque) paint. In many colors some of the new one coat paints will saturate in one coat if applied at the correct thickness. For example, PPG Timeless has worked well for me. Now, I don't believe they warrant it in one coat over bare drywall, but that is more for sheen consistency than color coverage. Of course not every single color, such as some reds and yellows, are going to be included in that one coat coverage. But certainly with many colors you can put on one coat of Gardz and one coat of Timeless. But in any case you should be able to put on 2 coats of many good quality paints today over bare drywall and be just as good as if you had used most drywall primers as an extra coat.

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

can't sand guardz, good luck with level 5 smooth wall.

 

[jeffnc]

can't sand guardz, good luck with level 5 smooth wall.

I've never heard of guardz. However, Gardz you can sand. But it's a thin finish (obviously, the whole point of why Gardz works better as a sealer is because it's thin.) So you can sand through it in spots if you sand too much or use too high a grit. If you need a Level 5 finish, that's done in the drywall beneath it. Gardz won't affect that, but if you feel the need to sand again, lightly sand by hand with a high number grit.

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

I've never heard of guardz. However, Gardz you can sand. But it's a thin finish (obviously, the whole point of why Gardz works better as a sealer is because it's thin.) So you can sand through it in spots if you sand too much or use too high a grit. If you need a Level 5 finish, that's done in the drywall beneath it. Gardz won't affect that, but if you feel the need to sand again, lightly sand by hand with a high number grit.

What a drywaller/ATSM calls level 5 doesn't necessarily mean paint ready, there can be and usually are still defects that need to be fixed. Of course no one around here does real level 5 but I have never seen any smooth wall that didn't need to be sanded after inspecting the primer coat. I think even with 320grit would burn through any gardz on drywall, that stuff is only 22% solids and most of it is absorbed.



I usually spec a quality pigmented primer because it easily highlights all the problem areas that need attention in plain sight. PPG 6-2 and BM 253 are the best I have used.

 

[jeffnc]

Well you're probably right, if you want a seriously smooth wall, a thicker primer that can be sanded more would probably be better. But of course, the thicker it is, the less it penetrates in the first place. In that case the best way to do it would be to put a coat of Gardz on, then the primer, then sand that. That's an extra coat, but we're talking about a more discriminating customer who wants a high end finish, so an extra coat doesn't seem out of place there to me.

 

[Gymschu]

Good discussion. I enjoy the differing viewpoints on how to do things. I am always open to trying a "different way." I know I did a church office a few years back and used Gardz to not only seal up damaged drywall but also to prime the areas with new drywall. It turned out great.

 

[jeffnc]

There might be less expensive alternatives that do pretty much the same thing. I've also used Roman Rx-35 and Kilz Klear. I haven't used them enough to know if they're as good as Gardz.

 

[riccobo4]

Thanks for all the replies. I am actually going to do an experiment comparing Zinsser Gardz, 123, and PVA primer. Ill be looking for tips, I'll start a new thread.

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

There might be less expensive alternatives that do pretty much the same thing. I've also used Roman Rx-35 and Kilz Klear. I haven't used them enough to know if they're as good as Gardz.

I never got around to testing it but there was some discussion on PT regarding the V027 as an alternative to gardz a while back.
http://benjaminmoore.pl/en/our-prod...s/corotech-reg-clear-acrylic-sealer-v027.html

 

[cocomonkeynuts]

Well you're probably right, if you want a seriously smooth wall, a thicker primer that can be sanded more would probably be better. But of course, the thicker it is, the less it penetrates in the first place. In that case the best way to do it would be to put a coat of Gardz on, then the primer, then sand that. That's an extra coat, but we're talking about a more discriminating customer who wants a high end finish, so an extra coat doesn't seem out of place there to me.

I think I would only spec a system like this that needed to be smooth semigloss/ high gloss. seems useful for large ceilings and walls too.


I would think primer for build and sand, then gardz as a sealer to provide ample open time.

 

[mark sr]

I've not used a lot of Gardz in new construction but when I did I always sprayed it on first. IMO the bare drywall will suck it up better lowering the risk of runs and decreasing the drying time. I always rolled or spray/rolled a pigmented primer over the Gardz once it dried. Not saying this is the best method but how I've done it.

 

[jeffnc]

I've not used a lot of Gardz in new construction but when I did I always sprayed it on first. IMO the bare drywall will suck it up better lowering the risk of runs and decreasing the drying time

Why do you think spraying would soak up the primer better than rolling? It would be just the opposite I would think. More or less for the same reason that hand brushing is considered better than spraying for exterior siding.

 

[mark sr]

What I meant is that bare drywall will suck up the Gardz better than over primed or painted drywall. The application method isn't all that important [other than speed] It's easy to get runs with Gardz especially with spraying. Applying it over bare drywall makes the job a tad easier.

 

[jeffnc]

that makes sense