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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Were starting our newest project which is a lakefront home on a gentle slope lot. Planning on doing a walkout and I assumed it would be all concrete but the foundation guy is saying we will frame the front wall, but due to frost level there will be a 4 foot (lakeside) wall and the other walls will be either 11-12 feet so 4 feet of them are below the frost line.

On to my question; when I frame the frontal wall will I need to have the basement slab poured so I can attach the wall to it, or can I puild the wall directly on top of the top of the front (mainly buried) 4 foot wall ?

If I can build it on the frontal wall then I assume I would have the top of the slab meet the edge of the wall opposed to sitting on top of it ?

Thanks
 

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I may be misunderstanding your question. Sorry but not really thinking deep about it, not that it helps.:) Your concrete guy may be talking about 4' under the ground (not including the footing) to prevent the concrete from moving around by freeze/thaw cycle. Search the meaning.
On a gentle slope, and you want a walk out, means your walk out floor is more or less level with the ground. That could mean your first floor is level (more or less, one step high is preferred) with the ground. When I read a walk out, I usually think about a basement first, but for you, that could mean your first floor is the walk out. In nj and houses have basements. So people usually build a deck to have a "walk out" from their first floor to outside.
I don't know what you want, but if your basement has the walk out, your first floor, or the front entrance will be high, with lots of steps up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sorry, Yes the walk out (lake) side would be even with the ground with the wall buried 4 feet down for frost. The opposite side would therefore have 12 foot walls (4 feet also buried, and remaining 8 feet left up, because the lot slopes a bit the 8 foot wall will hopefully be reduced to 5-6 feet at the front door.

My question is, on the 4 foot wall side (walkout) can I frame right on top of the foundation wall for a patio door/windows or do I have to have basement slab poured first ?
 

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retired framer
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Either he is wrong or you misunderstood what he was saying
When you dig the hole you dig the back 4 ft deeper than the front



Ecoregion Rectangle Wood Slope Font


Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Wood
 

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I think I get it now. Yes, you can frame on top of the "buried" foundation. How you will pour the slab depends on how much of the foundation sticks out. If the foundation sticks out 2" from the ground, but your base ground inside is not dug out further, then 4" slab will be 2" above the foundation. Even this can work but you need to plan carefully so your entrance and your vulnerable wood frames are away from water, even splashes as possible. In the back, if your plan is to pour 4' foundation, maybe you should spring for 4.5' wall so at least 6" is above the ground. If you poured the slab on the foundation, there is the cold joint which can admit water under the slab. There is also slab movement that conflicts with the foundation. Best if your foundation is stand alone and water proofed and your slab is floating.
There are houses that are built on a slab with almost flush with ground. This forum is full of posts with intruding water problems.
 

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retired framer
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I think I get it now. Yes, you can frame on top of the "buried" foundation. How you will pour the slab depends on how much of the foundation sticks out. If the foundation sticks out 2" from the ground, but your base ground inside is not dug out further, then 4" slab will be 2" above the foundation. Even this can work but you need to plan carefully so your entrance and your vulnerable wood frames are away from water, even splashes as possible. In the back, if your plan is to pour 4' foundation, maybe you should spring for 4.5' wall so at least 6" is above the ground. If you poured the slab on the foundation, there is the cold joint which can admit water under the slab. There is also slab movement that conflicts with the foundation. Best if your foundation is stand alone and water proofed and your slab is floating.
There are houses that are built on a slab with almost flush with ground. This forum is full of posts with intruding water problems.
You do the back wall 3 1/2" above the level of the footing in the front. For us they back fill and we build the house, the slab is poured after the roof is on and the plumbing is installed below the slab.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Either he is wrong or you misunderstood what he was saying
When you dig the hole you dig the back 4 ft deeper than the front



View attachment 679955

View attachment 679956
Neal, my wall guy was saying that they usually do side walls full height and only do a shorter walkout side wall. Of course so the footers line up the side walls (for an 8 foot deep basement) would then need to be 12 feet high (he said this is the way nearly all wall companies up here do it). Can I frame, put patio door right on top of front wall then before doing basement slab ?

I know this would then mean that the slab to be even with the top of the backside (lake side) wall to avoid there being a lip coming in the doorway
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I think I get it now. Yes, you can frame on top of the "buried" foundation. How you will pour the slab depends on how much of the foundation sticks out. If the foundation sticks out 2" from the ground, but your base ground inside is not dug out further, then 4" slab will be 2" above the foundation. Even this can work but you need to plan carefully so your entrance and your vulnerable wood frames are away from water, even splashes as possible. In the back, if your plan is to pour 4' foundation, maybe you should spring for 4.5' wall so at least 6" is above the ground. If you poured the slab on the foundation, there is the cold joint which can admit water under the slab. There is also slab movement that conflicts with the foundation. Best if your foundation is stand alone and water proofed and your slab is floating.
There are houses that are built on a slab with almost flush with ground. This forum is full of posts with intruding water problems.
Thanks, I think because of the frost up here that may be why my guy was saying they do full height side and back wall so you dont have that cold joint. I'm going to go out and measure the drop later today but I'm guessing I will have less than a 3 foot drop from back to front which would mean 5-6 feet sticking out at the front door which I think will be kind of goofy. I'll try to load some sample pics
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The walkout pic here even closely resembles our house design. This is a nice look but I dont think I have enough slope to keep the streetside of the home as buried as this one. The other pic is a lakefront near us where they have too much basement sticking up and tried to landscape (tier) up to it, I've seen this in person and its just no eye pleasing.

Theyre clearing trees this monday, I'm gonna see how deep with can dig and still keep a positive flow away from the walkout towards the lake. I've seen where people have basically dug down to make a walkout but then I would have to reply on draintile to drain rainwater which I dont want to do.
 

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retired framer
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Neal, my wall guy was saying that they usually do side walls full height and only do a shorter walkout side wall. Of course so the footers line up the side walls (for an 8 foot deep basement) would then need to be 12 feet high (he said this is the way nearly all wall companies up here do it). Can I frame, put patio door right on top of front wall then before doing basement slab ?

I know this would then mean that the slab to be even with the top of the backside (lake side) wall to avoid there being a lip coming in the doorway
We build houses on mountains, I have never seen one where the wall in the front goes deeper than needed.
Patio door on the lower wall?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Probably hard to tell on elevation, but this is build site, I want to stay as low as possible on slope to stay as close to lake as I can. The second pic is from front of site, I cant get any closer to lake as that there are some designated wetlands
 

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Probably hard to tell on elevation, but this is build site, I want to stay as low as possible on slope to stay as close to lake as I can. The second pic is from front of site, I cant get any closer to lake as that there are some designated wetlands
So how much slope do you have front to back of the house?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So how much slope do you have front to back of the house?
I'm guessing less than 3 feet, I'm gonna go out today and try to figure that out. I may have to wait til the trees are pulled out mid week for a better idea
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
@
lpranger467

Have you considered water drainage and hydrostatic pressure regarding the structure placement on that sloping lot?
I want to make sure I keep a positive slope by several inches from the lowest point on the lakeside of the house. The lot is about 128 feet wide I may need to shift it left or right to try to capture the best slope while giving me room for a drainfield
 

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I'm guessing less than 3 feet, I'm gonna go out today and try to figure that out. I may have to wait til the trees are pulled out mid week for a better idea
Usually they start with survey of the lot, everything that is don't here is height above sea level. with a reference mark on the street. And you use that to find the best location for the house.
 

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This would be typical here, you can see the footing in the back is just lower than the lower wall.
Wood Composite material Building material Concrete Roof
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Usually they start with survey of the lot, everything that is don't here is height above sea level. with a reference mark on the street. And you use that to find the best location for the house.
Waiting for mine to be completed (he already did field work). The lot is pretty deep (1100 feet x 128) so I paid extra to get it marked off every 100 feet for property boundary, then we did elevations of proposed site and wetlands. I was originally thinking I couldnt do a walkout at all so I didnt pay as much mind to placement as I now need too
 

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So when they backfill they will only leave a few inches of that front wall proud ?
For strength you will likely need the front wall to be full height to the floor above but that can stick out of the ground be four feet and you walk up to the front porch.
Min. exposed in the front would be 8"
If you have lots exposed you might add a brick ledge or put treated 1x4 in the concrete for siding to be attached.
 
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