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Discussion Starter · #1 ·


So this is a 12x24 shed with two bays. The back 24' wall is sturdy, and the front is not. I didn't put up the last brace in the front on the left because I noticed it was wobbly. I used bigger braces in the back, possibly why its more sturdy. I'm trying to figure out a way to shore up the front better so there is no wobble to it. The front will remain open, the two sides and back will be sided with 1x6's. Any advice on what to do about the front wobble would be appreciated.


Disclaimer: This is my first time building anything, I now realize the posts should have been 6x6's and not 4x4's. I'm learning as I go.
 

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retired framer
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Are you planning on no walls.
You should have at least one full temp brace all sides from very low to very high on the next post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Are you planning on no walls.
You should have at least one full temp brace all sides from very low to very high on the next post.
There will be 2x6 rafters with 1x4 purlins on top. Metal sheet roofing. The front will remain open, the sides and back will be sided with stained 1x6's. I'm not sure if it will tighten up with all that, and didn't want to get to much farther if I'm missing something.
 

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retired framer
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When you build the walls you will want to cut angled blocks and the act like an angle brace.
You just have to make sure the posts are plumb and brace them properly so you can continue with the roof. It's always better to build the walls first but it easier to get the angles and fit right if you do the roof first.
You might consider building the front down to the height of the back wall.
 

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Are those just 4 X 4's?
Is the beam just face nailed to the post?
Is that just a board laying flat to rest the rafters on across the back lower side?
Should have been a bare minimum of 4 X 6's, 6 X 6's is the way I would have done it, notched to rest the beams on and double through bolted.
 

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Master General ReEngineer
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I didn't put up the last brace in the front on the left because I noticed it was wobbly. I used bigger braces in the back, possibly why its more sturdy.
Ayuh,.... It's those braces that stiffen the structure,....

The more there're braces, or longer the braces, the stiffer the structure,....

Diagonal off each post in each direction for max stiffness,...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Are those just 4 X 4's?
Is the beam just face nailed to the post?
Is that just a board laying flat to rest the rafters on across the back lower side?
Should have been a bare minimum of 4 X 6's, 6 X 6's is the way I would have done it, notched to rest the beams on and double through bolted.
Yes they are 4x4s. I wish I would have put 6x6s but I just didn't know at the time. I'm learning as I go, first time building anything like this. Plus side is that it's only holding up some rafters and metal sheet roofing. Hopefully it's light weight enough.

The 2x8 is nailed to the post. But the 45 degree braces are toe nailed into the post and bolted to the 2x8. So its nailed to the post and bolted to the braces to prevent it from tearing away.

The back board is the same as the front. It's a 2x8 on one side (outer side), and a 2x4 on the inside to assist the 2x8 weight distribution, and to allow for the bolt to attach the 4x4 braces.
 

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I see you haven't put in the brace yet on the top left (front). That will probably help. But in addition to permanent bracing you should have temporary bracing on now. Get each pole plumb, screw one end of a 2x4 to the post and the other end of the 2x4 will be screwed to a stake that you pound in the ground. (the 2x4 will angle out away from pole). Keep things safe while you are working, you don't want to get hurt or come outside some morning to find the whole works laying on the ground.

Put up some temporary bracing first, and as you proceed with installing rafters and purlins, then sheeting boards things will really start to tighten up. It probably doesn't matter here, but keep in mind that metal roofing "sweats" and you will get dripping from underneath it if you don't use bubble wrap insulation. Since it is just a wood shed, I probably would not worry about a few drips.
 

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Wire Chewer
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I just went through a shed build myself, and I found the same, when it was at the stud level it felt flimsy. I actually did have braces, but turned out to not be enough as it was just scrap 2x4 so not all of them were full length. I originally figured it would be enough but it was not. Once the plywood went on it made a huge difference, now it's nice and solid. Had I not put the plywood this year I would have just added more full 2x4's in X's. (one inside, one outside - on each wall)
 

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Big Dog
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How far are the posts buried? Also is it just an optical illusion or does the middle of the front beam look like it is sagging a bit?
 

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Guapo
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Buried posts & no footings? The moisture will rot the posts. Start over. Install footings to the frost line, if there is a frost line. Let the brackets setup with the concrete. Then mount the posts a day or two later.
 

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Buried posts & no footings? The moisture will rot the posts. Start over. Install footings to the frost line, if there is a frost line. Let the brackets setup with the concrete. Then mount the posts a day or two later.
If you have never set a post in that manner try it and after all is set apply about 20 lbs. side pressure in each building line direction near the top of the post and monitor how much movement there is.

Rot and frost depth isn't a concern at the moment but wobbly is.
 

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Big Dog
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Rotted posts in the ground is a recipe for future wobble. Posts in the ground are ok for a stockade fence.
I have to disagree. If the right posts are installed properly, they will last.

This means digging the appropriate diameter whole to below the frost line, preferably using sonotubes and tamping at least six-eight inches of gravel in the bottom of the whole prior to placing the posts. Also be sure the concrete at the top slopes away from the post and for added insurance place a bead of exterior caulking around where the concrete meets the post.

About forty years ago, my dad built a 20’x20’ shed in our backyard. It sits on concrete encased 4x4 PT posts. (I still recall mixing concrete using 90lb bags of Portland cement by hand for that project)

That shed is still standing to this day.

On a more recent note, my FIL built a deck onto his house about 10 years ago. He used PT 4x4 encased in concrete and has never had an issue with it.
 

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Guapo
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Yes, I would use sono tubes but gravel isn't needed. I would pour concrete in the tube. Gravel could be around the tubes for drainage but it's not really needed either. I used to be a deck builder's helper & I also did work for an architect bringing jobs up to code. Both of them used the footings that I described. That's why I suggested it.

Bringing things up to code was the easiest & best paying jobs that I used to get, especially when the home owner couldn't sell until the place was code compliant.
 

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The front top beam (header) probably won’t hold more roof. You need to hault the project, take time online and reevaluate what you’ve built. No sense building something that is unsafe or won’t last. Take a look at basic framing construction
 

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Wire Chewer
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Yeah I would avoid having wood touching the ground directly, or at least minimize it. Either do pillar footings going to frost line then use some kind of bracket or just have it sit on blocks, it will settle but you can deal with that as it happens. That's what I ended up opting for with my shed, I put in 6 deck blocks, filled the post holes with cement to make it flat, then laid 3 6x6 beams across each pair of blocks and then built on top of the 6x6. In my case I did it that way so the blocks can be hidden away under, was just an aestetic thing.



The ends of the 6x6 are technically bearing the entire weight of the shed though, but I think it will be fine. I'll find out in the next couple years, if I see some sag I can always jack up and put the blocks closer.
 
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