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I'm trying to figure out how to install these lights in new construction and still be up to code? they are 120VAC light with their own Powersupply/driver the RED/Black wires are Low voltage DC but the BLUE/BROWN wires are 120VAC. How do i put this is joist space undercode?

 

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Licensed Electrician
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Judging by the colors of the input wires, I would have to guess that this is an European device and is not UL listed. Thus, not legal to install in the US. If you have a link to the product, we may be able to figure it out.
 

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Electrical Contractor
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It looks like it needs to be mounted in a hi-hat can ...
 

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Sure would be nice if you would go back and add your location to your profile.
 

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I'd mount the LED driver in a small box installed behind the fixture, accessible through the hole when the fixture is removed.
 

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If they are not listed, which they do not appear to be listed for use in the US, then they are not legal to install in the US and will fail inspection.

They do appear to be listed for use in Canada.
 

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If they are not listed, which they do not appear to be listed for use in the US, then they are not legal to install in the US and will fail inspection.

They do appear to be listed for use in Canada.
That blows! I really do hate us regulation. One person dies and so every body has to cover their butts forcing us to only buy a few more expensive select products. No way around it?
 

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If they are not listed, which they do not appear to be listed for use in the US, then they are not legal to install in the US and will fail inspection.

They do appear to be listed for use in Canada.
If it's listed by any agency whatsoever, then it may pass. The NEC doesn't require any specific listing, only that luminaires be listed by an entity recognized by the authority having jurisdiction. The inspector, as a representative of the AHJ, could choose to accept any listing. The intent of this rule is to avoid fire risks, since light fixtures have historically involved a lot of heat dissipation. Since LED fixtures pose so little risk, this rule is arguably irrelevant and the inspector might be convinced to "recognize" the CE mark on these.
 

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mpoulton said:
If it's listed by any agency whatsoever, then it may pass. The NEC doesn't require any specific listing, only that luminaires be listed by an entity recognized by the authority having jurisdiction. The inspector, as a representative of the AHJ, could choose to accept any listing. The intent of this rule is to avoid fire risks, since light fixtures have historically involved a lot of heat dissipation. Since LED fixtures pose so little risk, this rule is arguably irrelevant and the inspector might be convinced to "recognize" the CE mark on these.
It has to be listed for use in the US. It is not, as far as I can tell.
 

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UAW SKILLED TRADES
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It has to be listed for use in the US. It is not, as far as I can tell.
It carries 3 product certification labels including UL's Rohs product compliance Label it should be fine to install in the US. The voltage range is compliant also.
 

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It carries 3 product certification labels including UL's Rohs product compliance Label it should be fine to install in the US. The voltage range is compliant also.
Stubie, I'm surprised at your answer. RoHS is not a listing. The FCC marking isn't a listing either. It is listed for use in Canada however.
 

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Stubie, I'm surprised at your answer. RoHS is not a listing. The FCC marking isn't a listing either. It is listed for use in Canada however.
I hate to put a damper on this part as well the CE marking is only good in European area but nothing for Canada or USA side at all.

Merci,
Marc
 

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I hate to put a damper on this part as well the CE marking is only good in European area but nothing for Canada or USA side at all.

Merci,
Marc
I apologize, I thought the CE label was a Canadian listing. That would make sense. As I noted earlier, the blue and brown input wire colors are a European tip off.
 
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It has to be listed for use in the US. It is not, as far as I can tell.
Code cite? That's not what the code says.
 

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Code cite? That's not what the code says.
Are you seriously arguing that a product that is listed for use in Europe is automatically OK to install in the US? I'd love to hear that argument with the inspector.
 

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I apologize, I thought the CE label was a Canadian listing. That would make sense. As I noted earlier, the blue and brown input wire colors are a European tip off.
I am assuming your saying this product is not for sale in the USA or is not compatible in the USA. I don't see that statement anywhere ... :wink:

It appears a company in ST. Louis Missouri is offering this product . Just information .. not that it is relevant.

I contend that the FCC certification and the UL Rohs certification are all that a inspector or AHJ needs to allow it. Though how many jobsites have the fixtures available for inspection by the authority....:)

I'm not sure why your surprised at my reply. The product we are looking at is not listed by UL afaik because likely they have not tested it yet nor has any other lab that I can tell. It does however carry certifications that have approved the product by 3 different product compliance agencies so that it can be sold in the market place and meets the required standards. In this case european, usa and UL certicfications, I'm also not sure why you are citing wire color coming off the product power supply as a reason it won't or is'nt made for use in the USA. Blue is neutral and brown is power in the UK and other european countries.There are many lighting devices fixtures,ballasts etc that have wires that do not match your typical supply wire colors. It's not unusal to have an orange 277 volt power wire that connects to a black wire of a fixture or ballast as an example. The UL in no way has tested everything available for sale in the USA and these can be installed in your home..

It is also common for local jurisdictions, municipalities etc.. to have rules or laws requireing items for sale at retailers and suppliers be UL listed if they are to be sold locally. There is nothing stopping you from buying on line.

Are you saying that nothing can be installed in the USA without a testing lab marking? The NEC does not state this ... if so where? I don't think citing article 110.3 will work.

A UL listing mark means the product has been tested ... a UL certification is all that an AHJ needs to determine if a product has been evaluated to meet the UL standard without testing it.

Red and bold are mine ... this from the UL website

As an Authority Having Jurisdiction do I need a UL Standard to determine if a UL Certified product complies with that standard?

UL Standards for Safety are not needed to determine code compliance, even if the installation code indicates that a product or material must comply with a specific UL Standard. The Guide information in UL's Online Certifications Directory, or in UL's published product directories, usually identifies the standard(s) used to investigate and certify products in a particular product category. This information can assure code officials that a product was evaluated to the appropriate product standard, which is often referenced in a model code or regulation.


Sooo I may not have all the information that I would like on this product but the markings tell me that some pretty good agencies are aware of this product and have bothered to certify it for sale ... which is why it carries the ROHS certification due to the fact it is an electronic operated device. Frankly I could care less what the color of the wires are as long as the wiring diagram tells me what color is neutral and power and it will operate at USA voltages for single phase.

BTW the listed operating voltage is 95 to 140 VAC ... in europe (where it might be made) the voltage for this product would be 230 to 250 volts line to neutral. IMO it is likely a product manufactured in Europe for sale in the USA which is why it carries both european and USA certifications ... quite common for a UL testing label to not exist on these products.


The cheapest piece of crap receptacles carry a UL label, just making a point.


Now having said all this I will contact the company and post their reply as to USA compliance ... I may or may not eat crow ... :wink:
 

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The RoHS stamp means that contains less than a certain amount of hazardous materials.

The FCC logo means that it will not produce interference.

Neither of these mean that the product is actually a listed product.
 
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