[aragno]

Hi, I am new to this forum but this looks like a great place for support!

I searched this sub-forum but did not find anything to answer my question.

I have a timer in my attic which was wired in by an electrician. He is horrific and I won't bother to call him.

Some outdoor lights were originally wired to a switch in the living room. I asked the electrician to place them on a timer instead of the switch. He did so and it has been working on the timer for more than a year.

The timer has stopped functioning so we have to manually turn on the lights in the attic (the switch in the living room doesn't control the lights at all).

I have a new timer but the wiring is different.
Old timer: Theben SUL 181 h

I've attached a single photo which shows the old timer wiring setup and the new timer.

I would appreciate any guidance so I can avoid calling this horrific electrician back out here.

 

[bob22]

I think it might help if the brand and model # of new timer were provided.

 

[surferdude2]

I'd guess:

A to NT
B&C to T&T
D to OUT

You should have a schematic either on the new timer or at least in the directions.

 

[aragno]

I think it might help if the brand and model # of new timer were provided.

My complete oversight!

New timer is KG316T. There are many manufacturers but they are all the same model.

I'd guess:

A to NT
B&C to T&T
D to OUT

You should have a schematic either on the new timer or at least in the directions.

There are no schematics on timer or the directions. I assume because it is a micro-computer driven timer and not purely mechanical?

Directions are 100% in Chinese so I use Google Translate (via my camera) to translate and it's primarily all programming. This is the one page which denotes some wiring. Translations provided in the attached image.

 

[tribe_fan]

There is a PDF line (if it is the same model)
https://www.timer-switch.com/digital-programmable-time-switch-kg316t-ii.html

 

[aragno]

There is a PDF line (if it is the same model)
https://www.timer-switch.com/digital-programmable-time-switch-kg316t-ii.html

The one I have isn't specifically a KG316T-II but just a "regular" KG316T but it did help me to find this schematic that may be helpful to those who are smarter than me.

 

[aragno]

I'd guess:

A to NT
B&C to T&T
D to OUT

You should have a schematic either on the new timer or at least in the directions.

I managed to find a schematic online, which I assume is how it looks inside. As you can see the "C" wire is jumping between #2 and #8, does that mean wire "B" can go into either "T" since both "T" are connected with the "C" wire?

I think it might help if the brand and model # of new timer were provided.

I've managed to find the model and post a couple pieces of additional info. Is anyone of it more helpful? I'm really quite lost at what the electrician was trying to achieve in his wiring method on the old timer.

There is a PDF line (if it is the same model)
https://www.timer-switch.com/digital-programmable-time-switch-kg316t-ii.html

Thanks! This has helped lead me to a KG316T line drawing, which hopefully is helpful.

Thank you all again for your input. Apologies for not being able to edit the original post, but editing closes after a predefined number of minutes.

I really want to avoid calling the electrician as he has done other wiring that has been atrocious and it is difficult to find any trustworthy person- plus something like this timer seems like it should be simple.

 

[carmusic]

i wouldn't use a timer like that, it is not approved for use in america

 

[aragno]

i wouldn't use a timer like that, it is not approved for use in america

What are the cons of a timer like this?

I ask because I am not in the US right now (living in Ghana, but originally from Texas) and this is about all I can find at the moment. The "old timer" is only lasting about 1 year.

 

[bfrabel]

The issue with it not being allowed in the USA would be that it is a 220V device, which would mean that it's powered by 2 hot wires, but they are only breaking one wire when it switches. Where you are that 220V is probably supplied by a hot and a neutral, so it's probably fine for where you are.

By looking at that diagram, it appears that the first terminal is the one that is switched, so I would put the hot there, and the neutral on the 2nd terminal. Then put the hot going to the light on the 3rd terminal and the neutral going to the light on the 4th terminal (+=hot, -=neutral) If I was wrong about Ghana and they really use 2 hot wires, then it shouldn't matter which you decide to be + and which is -.

Here's a youtube video that shows the wiring, as you can see the power wires come in to the first 2, and the wires going to the light are on 3 and 4. Good luck.

 

[aragno]

The issue with it not being allowed in the USA would be that it is a 220V device, which would mean that it's powered by 2 hot wires, but they are only breaking one wire when it switches. Where you are that 220V is probably supplied by a hot and a neutral, so it's probably fine for where you are.

By looking at that diagram, it appears that the first terminal is the one that is switched, so I would put the hot there, and the neutral on the 2nd terminal. Then put the hot going to the light on the 3rd terminal and the neutral going to the light on the 4th terminal (+=hot, -=neutral) If I was wrong about Ghana and they really use 2 hot wires, then it shouldn't matter which you decide to be + and which is -.

Here's a youtube video that shows the wiring, as you can see the power wires come in to the first 2, and the wires going to the light are on 3 and 4. Good luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNcsmPMA-zg

Thanks for your time to reply. My challenge is I am unable to easily determine which is the hot and the neutral. Easy way to tell with my Fluke multi-meter?

I am trying to figure out why wire "C" in the old timer is looped between #2 and #8. We are quite certain the wire "D" go to the light fixtures themselves.

Are there some easy steps I can follow to identify where all these wires go, etc? or any easy way to determine based on the old time schematic and how it is wired?

 

[aragno]

Any other ideas on which of my existing wires should go where into this timer which has a different layout than the previous one? I hate to pay a fortunate for something as simple as this.

 

[Nickd83]

If there is a ground wire, you can use that to determine which is hot, just put one lead on your suspected hot, the other to ground, and if you have 240, or 120 volts, you have a hot leg.

To trace the wires, you can get up in the attic and follow and tug, probably not ideal You can also turn off the breaker, remove the wires from the timer, making sure to label each and where they came from, and twist one pair (from the same cable together. Then go to your suspected junction, or end point, turn your meter to resistance and if you have something to the effect of 0.1 to 50 ohms, you've found your cable.
If it shows OL, or infinity, you're on the wrong cable.

 

[Let it Snow]

Because of heat, I thought an electronic device like that was not permitted in an attic.

 

[seharper]

The issue with it not being allowed in the USA would be that it is a 220V device

No, the issue is that it's a piece of Chinese rubbish that has never seen the inside of any reputable independent testing lab. Even the dubious CE mark is blatantly faked.

So the connector won't hold the wire well, and when it arcs, electronic components will take damage, causing PCB overload, causing internal fire, and then the room will fill with toxic smoke because they used the wrong kind of plastic. These are the kinds of thing that the UL White Book etc. forces builders to do right.

 

[aragno]

No, the issue is that it's a piece of Chinese rubbish that has never seen the inside of any reputable independent testing lab. Even the dubious CE mark is blatantly faked.

So the connector won't hold the wire well, and when it arcs, electronic components will take damage, causing PCB overload, causing internal fire, and then the room will fill with toxic smoke because they used the wrong kind of plastic. These are the kinds of thing that the UL White Book etc. forces builders to do right.

Welcome to the challenges of buying anything decent in Ghana.

I have managed to locate a similar timer where I am able to better trace and identify the wires though and have attached it here.