[mwpiper]

At the risk of covering old ground again.

My municipality contracts with St. Louis County for code enforcement so St. Louis Co Public Works has jurisdiction.

I had a structural final inspection yesterday and only need to meet the new smoke detector code requirement to get the building permit out of the window.

The inspector said was that the county had dropped the requirement for hardwired smoke detectors in retrofits to allow wireless battery powered detectors. The change had been within the past few weeks so nothing is posted in writing at the online building codes. I'm trying to sort out what he was describing before bothering him with, "wad'ya say?"

Mentioned were: Detectors with built in 10 yr lithium batteries. Wireless connections. Hubs. One element of the system has to be connected to 120v in the basement (easiest location).

What I've found is:
The 10yr built in lithium battery detectors are not wireless. I'm guessing the power requirement of the radio is too much to support that long. But they are incompatible with a wireless connection.

I'm not finding a 120v powered wireless connected smoke detector and am not sure I understand the requirement for just one if all the others are battery powered.

A search for hubs sends me to home automation systems which always has a hub to tie everything together. Which is not a problem IF that will satisfy the new requirement.

Does any of this sound compliant with current codes? If all I need to do is buy a Wink hub (for example) and a half dozen battery powered smoke/CO detectors, I'm done <hands waving in the air> with this project

 

[gregzoll]

Cities want them wired and also made to not be removed by people. Because they either take out the batteries, or remove the units all together and toss them away.

There are plenty of Wireless interconnect units. If this is a rental. It should be hooked up to a main alarm panel, along with a flooding alert sensor in the laundry area.

 

[Jim Port]

Cities want them wired and also made to not be removed by people. Because they either take out the batteries, or remove the units all together and toss them away.

There are plenty of Wireless interconnect units. If this is a rental. It should be hooked up to a main alarm panel, along with a flooding alert sensor in the laundry area.

Greg, the building code wanted them wired together so that the entire house would know there was a fire and not just those in the area of the fire.

I am not sure why you think a flood sensor has anything to do with a smoke alarm.

To OP, the code may be now allowing wireless interconnected smoke alarms that are not physically wired to the others in the house bur are still AC powered.

 

[mwpiper]

To earlier responder, this is a single family residence. Not rental.

I'm going to call the inspector Monday and confirm what he was described. It just sounded different when my finger was quivering over the "BUY" button.

 

[gregzoll]

To earlier responder, this is a single family residence. Not rental.

I'm going to call the inspector Monday and confirm what he was described. It just sounded different when my finger was quivering over the "BUY" button.

The thing about the wireless interconnected, is that if they are on a certain band, they can be interfered with in the same way WiFi can be disrupted in the 2.4 GHz band by Microwave ovens.

St. Louis County is getting to the point that they need the money to pay for what has been going on down there for the past two years.

The one unit you want to stay away from is the Nest units and some of the lower Kiddie units. Using a control panel, allows that panel to alert someone if there is a problem, so that someone can check on the residence if no one is home.

It also allows you to be able to protect your investment, in the same way that you can be alerted by a possible flooding if the unit freezes, because the heat got shut off. Next thing you know, the place is destroyed by broken water piping.

If anyplace to get a solution that you can build up with, you can get them at smarthome.com. A lot more options that you can add on other devices for the resident, such as lighting controllers, broken window or door opening. The resident can be set up to get an alert in those cases, then when it comes time to change the codes if they move, you can do it for the next person.

The thing about the whole Wireless and some inspectors, is that they are seeing the easy route, which is what all cities are going, because it is not always easy to pull a loop of 10/3 for just the units.

Across the river it is 1 CO within 15' of any living area, same as with bedrooms, even though we put one in a hallway and one in each room. Combo Ion/Photo's in the Hall, same as the Bedrooms. Heat detector near the Kitchen area, so that they do not get false alerts.

Menard's always stocks up this time of year with the alarms and same as the extinguishers.

 

[mwpiper]

I called the inspector and confirmed the use of battery powered detectors. I also pulled out the permit again. It did state that wireless is acceptable if the inspector believes the hardwiring would be excessively difficult. I bought two hardwired detectors that I can install in the basement and first floor. The basement is unfinished and 1st floor bathroom has a suspended ceiling that gives me access to the backside of the hall wall. The four upstairs alarms will be battery powered (I really didn't look forward to going in the attic again) All six will interconnect wirelessly.

I do find the code requirement to be a bit excessive. All six detectors are within fifteen feet of each other. The house just isn't that big. Meh.

The plus side of this is that researching detector nets showed me the opening to home automation. Something I had dismissed before because they always come with monthly service fees. That's no longer the case.

 

[gregzoll]

It should state "15' within any living space or Bedroom." Basically one in each Bedroom with Dual smoke sensors and CO, Basement with dual sensor and CO, Living room can get away with Photo or Ion.

The biggest issue is making them hard for the batteries to be removed. Or make a provision for building safety, that all installed alarms will be inspected once a month with those dates listed in the contract.

Too many renters get tired of them going off. So they take them down and yank the batteries.

 

[mwpiper]

Contract?

I think the big improvement in alarm design is the silence button. That keeps from having to pull the battery to shut the things up. Once the battery is pulled, someone has to remember to re-install them. Anyone familiar with human factors engineering (or human nature for that matter) should foresee how that will go.

 

[gregzoll]

Look through all of the fire reports that the renter or home owner had a smoke detector and there was no battery in the unit.

Same as those who died of CO, because either they did not have the detector, or they unplugged the unit or took the batteries out.

It is your investment property. You need to protect it, along with keeping from being sued for liable if the renter does something stupid and then blames you for not making sure that the detectos are in working order.

Smoke/CO detectors should be on a monthly inspection, along with checking for signs of bugs or mice.

Be proactive about this. Especially since St. Louis has a bunch of idiots running around, trying to find anything wrong with what they think hurts them.

 

[Jump-start]

The thing about the whole Wireless and some inspectors, is that they are seeing the easy route, which is what all cities are going, because it is not always easy to pull a loop of 10/3 for just the units.

I think you are trolling us. 14/3 is more then enough for interconnected units. I can not think of a single time or place where you need 10/3.