[ktownskier]

Why is it what plumbers are so reticent to adopt new things? Almost more so than any other trade?

And for seemingly no apparent reason?

Sharkbite connectors have been around and approved for use in the use since the turn of the the century. They have been used around the world for longer than that.

Yet, plumbers still fear them.

The main reason when pushed is: They leak. But if you ask for examples or proof. You cant get them to come up with any. Or at best, you can get them to come up with at most one. Perhaps two

When you ask them about other leaks, they can come up with troves of them. From poorly soldered connections, bad compression tightening and others. Amid tears of laughter.

But, do they stop using those connectors that are fraught with peril? Nope because they are known.

Maybe they are distrustful of Sharkbite's because they come from Australia? Or because it is just too easy?

I guess we will never know the real reason

Whoops, got to go. I need to fix a leak in a soldered copper connection. Now, how to fix it, how to fix it.

 

[Old Thomas]

I know plumbers who use Sharkbites in repair situations where other methods are difficult. Those include temporary caps for use when remodeling and for quick repairs. In some repairs it is difficult to get things dry enough to solder or there are too many combustibles close by to safely use a torch. I do the same. For overall use, though, they are expensive.

 

[TheEplumber]

I guess we will never know the real reason

Especially when you ask on a forum that has only a handful of licensed plumbers.....:wink2:

 

[huesmann]

Maybe they are distrustful of Sharkbite's because they come from Australia?

Well, Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals are used to having people not trust them...

 

[123pugsy]

I'm not a plumber, but, if something that is supposed to seal a liquid can be swiveled by hand after installing it, well, it won't be going in my house.
Enjoy your bites and hopefully, they don't come back to bite you.

 

[SeniorSitizen]

Plumbers already have enuff nonsense to be concerned with. Pipe isn't what the size says it is, is it copper tubing or pipe, well what kind of copper, hard or soft, K,L, M or other some nitwit invented.

 

[Colbyt]

I'm not a plumber but I do more plumbing that your average DIY guy. I've not yet had one fail fail but honestly I'm not sure I trust them. I've only used them in exposed locations.

 

[Oso954]

When you ask them about other leaks, they can come up with troves of them. From poorly soldered connections, bad compression tightening and others. Amid tears of laughter.

Ask them about their call back leaks. The list won’t be as long and I doubt they will be laughing.

The long, laughing list is generally homeowner/handyman mistakes.

 

[ktownskier]

I do hope you all realize that this was written a bit tongue in cheek. But only a bit.

First of all, I do have the utmost respect for all the trades and for those who enter into them. If I had to do my life over, I think I would have gone into the trades and become an electrician or, gasp, a plumber.

But, I do like what @huesmann said. And that fact that Aussie drink Foster's.

I am very proficient in doing my own plumbing. I can sweat a joint with the best of them and leave no drips behind. Mapp gas is my friend and I prefer my holster with a long tube and handle rather than it attached directly to the can.

But, I am also a geek, so I like to explore and try out new things.

Since I am not a professional, I don't feel tied down to "tried and true/traditional" ways to do things. As long as they meet codes and pass inspections of course.
@123pugsy you said that you you don't like the fact that the fitting swivels so it won't go in your house. Why?
@Oso954, yeah, I hear you. And thankfully, at least so far, none of them have been from me. Since I take care of my own. Not that there have been that many. And if there have, I know what I did wrong. (slow down, damn it!!)

Sometimes I think plumbers feel that the big box stores and manufacturers are trying to put them out of business. What they should realize it is further from the truth.

The true DIYers like @Colbyt, myself and others will always do what we do. The wanna be's, the first time flippers and others will try it and then realize it isn't as easy as it seems and then go back to hiring the pro's. No matter how easy it may seem with all the new products out there.

Sure, you can cut a copper pipe, put a sharkbite tee on to a new fixture. BUT, did you insert it in far enough? Did you cut it square? Ream it correctly? Etc... IF not, it will fail over time.

The same goes for PEX and PEX fittings.

And for sweat fittings.

If you are not confident in what you are doing, and comfortable in working with the products, then you need to leave it to the pro's.

No matter how easy any of the new products coming out make it seem.

 

[SeniorSitizen]

How many O rings are in a Sharkbite and how many O rings are required to operate a jet liner's hydraulic system. You still fly don't you? Well maybe not now.:vs_laugh:

 

[ktownskier]

How many O rings are in a Sharkbite and how many O rings are required to operate a jet liner's hydraulic system. You still fly don't you? Well maybe not now.:vs_laugh:

Sharkbites have at least one. And I would guess at least one in the hydraulic systems.

And I haven't flown since my TBI. Not enough XANAX and Martini's in the world.

Or Foster's for that matter.

 

[123pugsy]

@123pugsy you said that you you don't like the fact that the fitting swivels so it won't go in your house. Why?

Simple. It's already loose.
It can only get looser, not tighter as time goes by.

 

[ktownskier]

Simple. It's already loose.
It can only get looser, not tighter as time goes by.

You equate a feature with a fault. You assume the fact that because it can rotate it around the tube that it is loose. The stainless steel teeth of the fitting grab hold of the tube, and as long as you have a square cut and you have inserted it to proper depth, you are just rotating it around the EPDM o-ring.

Much like you a hydraulic quick connect fitting, or an air pressure fitting.

And those are working under much greater pressure than household water.

So, can you explain how a fitting can constructed of stainless steel teeth and rubber o-ring can get looser?

 

[SeniorSitizen]

I've always thought of as an O ring seal getting tighter as pressure increases. But here again I'm just a self teached enginur so maybe a real hydraulic engineer will chime in.

 

[SPS-1]

This is going to get tighter as pressure increases? Really ?

 

[123pugsy]

There's no point in trying to convince me. I deal with facts. Fact: If I do not install any in my house, it's a 100% certainty that I won't have a leak. And ya, I don't believe in Pez either unless you're offering me candy. :wink2: I piped my whole house with copper.
I did use some externally (outside the wall cavity) in the laundry room for the back up sump pump though. So, slightly hypocrite.

 

[Mystriss]

Here's my reasons;

They pop right off if the pressure increases. Even a little bit o'ice in the pipe and they're gone, a couple more PSI in the line and they're gone.

You can't visually inspect the thing to make sure it's on properly Like it's on good. With copper you can do the water bubble test, you can tug on the connection, etc. With PTC sharkbite you literally have to hope and pray its stuck on there (because they're removable) Up here there's really no such thing as a "no worries leak" in the system, especially in the baseboard/radiant lines - if the heat lines in the house start leaking in the winter, you've got to leave the house until everything's fixed. And if the supply lines get to leaking, stuff gets to freezing...

I don't like the idea of "removable" connections in walls that will not be "removable" down the line.

But most of all I don't like the "uncompressed gasket" seal method. I've tried pressure fit single gasket seal stuff on computer water cooling and it absolutely sucks compared to glued and compression fit. I'd rather just spend a bit more money/time for more secured fittings.

 

[Ghostmaker]

Most in the trade do not use them due to cost. I very rarely see these fittings when inspecting. They are legal to use.

 

[SPS-1]

There are certain failure modes for copper. Most have to do with corrosion. It can and does happen.

I am not as familiar with sharkbites, but there must be failure modes for (at least) those o-rings. Possibly wear due to vibration of a pipe. Not sure what the lifespan of rubber is, but it is certainly not infinite. I have seen lots of old pieces of degraded rubber. About a dozen years ago, Navien had a big problem with their tankless water heaters. Internally, they were all plumbed with their push-connect fittings. Tankless water heaters are complex, so there were lots of fittings inside. Trouble was, they picked the wrong compound for their o-rings. After a while, seals became hard as a rock, and started to leak. Plumber would try to replace the first fitting, and being tight in there, would push and move some of the other fittings and now you had a dozen leaks.

 

[RRH]

Not a plumber but have done quite a bit.

My reasons against sharkbites is I just think it is a weaker connection than any other method. Compared to pex crimp on connections, it cant handle as much pressure. And it ever a situation the fitting freezes the sharkbite will fail first.

So we know not as strong dealing with pressure or freezing. Yes a lot of hydraulic fitting handle high pressure. But plumbing sharkbites are not made to that standard.

Also the spring teeth that hold the pipe remind me of what is used in the back stabbing of electrical outlets. And we know that did not work out well and took years to find that out.

Then you have some complaints that the oring fails if a lot of vibration.