Hi, first time poster from Toronto, Canada. DIY'er looking for both facts and opinions... Just under 500 sq ft open concept one floor bachelor house. Super insulated on all 6 sides. Mini split heat pump does a great job heating if it's above -15C outside. For times when not, I'm putting carbon fiber infrared sheets under bamboo engineered floating floor. I recently heard I should have heat under each door and window. Then someone else said keep it all at least a foot away from the perimeter. Does it make sense to have 3 zones...? #1 would be only under the doors and windows, #2 would be living side and #3 kitchen/dining side. Check my "albums" for a rough plan pic. Thanks in advance for the enlightenment.
Where to install electric in floor heating
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Be sure you're putting enough heating capacity in.
Not a bad idea to do a quick load calc (there are a couple online) with the right r-values. BTU/3.4 gives roughly correct wattage.
Probably will need between 5 and 10 kw.
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The heat from in-floor is not very intense; I don't think putting it under doors and windows will really warm up the glass. That's the point of perimeter heating; warm up the surfaces - offset the heat loss directly.
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Zoning:
It makes no sense to zone different areas in one room.
If you zone room by room, you only have to heat the occupied areas. If you use programmable t-stats, can heat during off-peak periods only.
You do not want to be using more electricity than needed in Ontario.
Not a bad idea to do a quick load calc (there are a couple online) with the right r-values. BTU/3.4 gives roughly correct wattage.
Probably will need between 5 and 10 kw.
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The heat from in-floor is not very intense; I don't think putting it under doors and windows will really warm up the glass. That's the point of perimeter heating; warm up the surfaces - offset the heat loss directly.
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Zoning:
It makes no sense to zone different areas in one room.
If you zone room by room, you only have to heat the occupied areas. If you use programmable t-stats, can heat during off-peak periods only.
You do not want to be using more electricity than needed in Ontario.
How about this? Manufacturer says max 160 sq ft per thermostat so need at least 2... So, inner and outer? That way the perimeter could be used only when it's cold enough to boost the inner. (Tried to post a link here to my "Album" but it says I need at least 1 post... newbie here... anyway, new plan pic is in there)
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Electric in floor is not something I have experience with or have researched; at the end of the day you have to follow the manufacturer's instructions.
Thermostats may vary - square footage may vary. I don't know if all of them monitor floor temp or you can get those that do room temp.
I don't think there are any wrong answers as far as configuration goes - if you have to have more than one zone in a room, lots of ways to do it. Perimeter vs interior, separate sides of a room, etc.
Thermostats may vary - square footage may vary. I don't know if all of them monitor floor temp or you can get those that do room temp.
I don't think there are any wrong answers as far as configuration goes - if you have to have more than one zone in a room, lots of ways to do it. Perimeter vs interior, separate sides of a room, etc.
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I found this: http://www.britech.ca/selection_thermostat.html
I wonder how much heat the bamboo floor can take.
If there's a temperature limit, not just maximum wattage, you have to calculate btu output per square foot at that temp.
I wonder how much heat the bamboo floor can take.
If there's a temperature limit, not just maximum wattage, you have to calculate btu output per square foot at that temp.
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I'd be highly surprised if your heat calc was higher then 40,000 btu for the coldest night. (it's probably much less then that, considering that you're much more insulated then my house at almost 2x the size, fully detached. (I'm also near Toronto, and so is user IIRC)
Electric heating will drain your wallet here. The in floor heat will be great to walk on, but I wouldn't want to try to heat the room that way with our electricity prices. (resistive heat will consume 30-300% more electricity compared to that mini split) -15C can be more common here then you'd think so if we get another winter like a year or 2 ago, you'll be using it often. (some models, like most of Mitsubishi's lines for example have no problem heating to below -25*C, matching the rated capacity down to -15*C)
Of course the pros of resistive heat are that it's quite and easy to zone/modulate. That's about it.
Otherwise your exterior / interior plan would work the best. With the exterior zone thermostat mounted to an interior wall, a degree or so above the interior stat. (personally I'd only do an single zone, set to keep the floor warm for the bare feet. If necessary, add another heat pump ductless split. NG heating is still cheaper for us though.)
PS. Your link still hasn't be posted. I think it's 5 or 10 posts that you need.
Cheers!
Electric heating will drain your wallet here. The in floor heat will be great to walk on, but I wouldn't want to try to heat the room that way with our electricity prices. (resistive heat will consume 30-300% more electricity compared to that mini split) -15C can be more common here then you'd think so if we get another winter like a year or 2 ago, you'll be using it often. (some models, like most of Mitsubishi's lines for example have no problem heating to below -25*C, matching the rated capacity down to -15*C)
Of course the pros of resistive heat are that it's quite and easy to zone/modulate. That's about it.
Otherwise your exterior / interior plan would work the best. With the exterior zone thermostat mounted to an interior wall, a degree or so above the interior stat. (personally I'd only do an single zone, set to keep the floor warm for the bare feet. If necessary, add another heat pump ductless split. NG heating is still cheaper for us though.)
PS. Your link still hasn't be posted. I think it's 5 or 10 posts that you need.
Cheers!
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Yah, if you have natural gas service for heating water, you would be better off putting in a gas fireplace for backup.
The fireplace is only 60% efficient seasonal at best, but still far superior to electric resistance heat in terms of cost.
Get gas just for backup however and the monthly service charge will offset the savings. If you have gas, use it.
The fireplace is only 60% efficient seasonal at best, but still far superior to electric resistance heat in terms of cost.
Get gas just for backup however and the monthly service charge will offset the savings. If you have gas, use it.
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You'll probably see a much better return on investment from a fireplace than in floor electric heating as well. Not to mention the aesthetic benefits...
No natural gas in the area, only propane. Propane portable heaters are here for back up when power goes out. Anybody have any experience with Carbon Heating Film? Or "far infrared" panels? Are the claims of higher efficiency false? I've had 2 references tell me how happy they are with their floors.
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False? Not exactly, not it is a bit misleading.
They will say 100% efficient, which means that every watt used puts 1 watt of heat into your house. (1watt=3.41btus) Your ductless split will move between 1.3 to over 4x the watts (measured in btus) into your house then it actually consumes. Some of those sales pitches will mention that propane and NG is 70, 80, 90% efficient, however neglect to mention that even with those losses, it's still cheaper then resistive heating. (In Ontario unless your propane delivery is exceptionally high, or there's a lack of space, it's cheaper then electricity)
I've worked on many Infrared gas heaters. (Of various designs) They work very well. Inferred electric room heaters are very similar to what you want to use. (They radiate slightly more into the visible spectrum then the panels and gas heaters though. You shouldn't see any glow from them)
Carbon film is essentially pure resistive heat. It's commonly used on rear car windows and mirrors for defrost.
I really like infloor heat for pure comfort, especially on tile. Space heating will just get expensive. Did your ductless split shut off below -15C? Or just failed to keep up?
Cheers!
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I agree with you that the backup is necessary.
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