Hi folks. I'm a newbie. I have an old house and had to put a roof on the whole house right away. Problem is when I hired the roofer to do the main part of the house the small front porch had water damage and was leaking in a number of places and the siding right above the porch roof is obviously damaged and needs replacing and the porch itself needed repair. The roofer advised that it was no problem to put the roof on the porch anyway and cheaper for me to do it now. Well, the flashing was put over the siding and the porch repairs will necessitate supporting this new roof while doing repairs and or ripping it off, and the porch seems worse, too -- maybe the weight of the roof? Shame on me for agreeing to get the porch done and not seeing the problems (I don't live on the property and there was water running into the house and I make a decision) . . . but shouldn't this be repaired by the roofer? It also makes me doubt the integrity of the whole roof (and the roofer). Thoughts?
Where porch roof meets wood siding
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If you had the money to do the porch repair as you were doing the porch roof repair that would have been your best option. The siding above the porch roof looks like it needed to have a few courses removed and counterflashing installed to come over the top of the step flashing. Then new preprimed and backprimed siding could have been installed and painted.
Was there any rotten sheathing in the porch roof? That should have been replaced as well.
You really need to get the counterflashing on because any water running down the side of the house will enter between the house and porch.
I find it surprising that the roofer did not include this work. He really didn't finish the job and needs to come back. Is this a reputable roofer? Did you get anyone else to look at the job? Did you go with the lowest bid?
Was there any rotten sheathing in the porch roof? That should have been replaced as well.
You really need to get the counterflashing on because any water running down the side of the house will enter between the house and porch.
I find it surprising that the roofer did not include this work. He really didn't finish the job and needs to come back. Is this a reputable roofer? Did you get anyone else to look at the job? Did you go with the lowest bid?
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It depends on what was agreed to in the accepted terms of the contract.
That siding looks like is has not gotten any sunlight on it and that id the reason for the green algae growth.
It may be soft and rotting, or it may still have structural integrity.
Yes, he "Should Have" notified you that you needed additional work, but what did the contract obligate him to do?
A surface mounted flashing can allow water travelling downwards on the siding to get behind the counter-flashings, but it depends on how he sealed it to the horizontal lap siding.
The more proper way to do a counter-flashing is to cut away enough of the bottom of the siding to insert the counter-flashing "Behind" the wood siding, but that depends on how it was fastened to the framing structure.
Most supposed Roofers do not do that detail correctly though. Now, you are probably dependent upon the caulking that they should have installed at the top hemmed edge of the counter-flashing.
One thing, is that they at least put a counter-flashing there. Many times all I see them do is caulk the top edge of the shingles.
Ed
That siding looks like is has not gotten any sunlight on it and that id the reason for the green algae growth.
It may be soft and rotting, or it may still have structural integrity.
Yes, he "Should Have" notified you that you needed additional work, but what did the contract obligate him to do?
A surface mounted flashing can allow water travelling downwards on the siding to get behind the counter-flashings, but it depends on how he sealed it to the horizontal lap siding.
The more proper way to do a counter-flashing is to cut away enough of the bottom of the siding to insert the counter-flashing "Behind" the wood siding, but that depends on how it was fastened to the framing structure.
Most supposed Roofers do not do that detail correctly though. Now, you are probably dependent upon the caulking that they should have installed at the top hemmed edge of the counter-flashing.
One thing, is that they at least put a counter-flashing there. Many times all I see them do is caulk the top edge of the shingles.
Ed
porch roof
Thanks guys. I've contacted the roofer and plan to get him back to the site to go over my concerns and see what he can do for me. I regret my choice of roofer but my biggest concern now is that the work does not cause more water damage or structural damage to the porch. Thanks again. I'll post what his responses are.
Thanks guys. I've contacted the roofer and plan to get him back to the site to go over my concerns and see what he can do for me. I regret my choice of roofer but my biggest concern now is that the work does not cause more water damage or structural damage to the porch. Thanks again. I'll post what his responses are.
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From what I see; here's what needs to be done:
#1. Remove the roofing and check roof sheathing for rot, and replace if need be. (Hopefully the ledger board up against the house doesn't have water damage)
#2. Remove the siding that has water damage and check the integrity of the wall sheathing behind it. Replace if needed.
#3. Once these steps have been done, install "Grace" Ice and Water shield membrane 2' onto the roof and 1' up the wall. (In fact, Ice & Water the whole roof)
#4. Re-roof your porch roof with proper flashing installed where roof meets wall.
#5. Replace any siding that was removed.
#6. And finally, add a gutter to the roof above your porch roof.
That would be the proper way to address this issue.
#1. Remove the roofing and check roof sheathing for rot, and replace if need be. (Hopefully the ledger board up against the house doesn't have water damage)
#2. Remove the siding that has water damage and check the integrity of the wall sheathing behind it. Replace if needed.
#3. Once these steps have been done, install "Grace" Ice and Water shield membrane 2' onto the roof and 1' up the wall. (In fact, Ice & Water the whole roof)
#4. Re-roof your porch roof with proper flashing installed where roof meets wall.
#5. Replace any siding that was removed.
#6. And finally, add a gutter to the roof above your porch roof.
That would be the proper way to address this issue.
Shouldn't I get rid of the old flashing?
I may be able to save some of the wood siding in the short term. It still seems hard, isn't split and can be washed, scraped and painted. The trees that blocked the sunlight and caused the mildew have/will be pruned back. As to the porch roof, I want the old rusted mangled flashing removed (it's letting in water anyway) and some counter flashing applied. Does this sound like a decent temporary fix until the porch is rebuilt? What type of flashing is used when you can't put it under the siding? Should the new flashing stay as is? Here's a new pic.
I may be able to save some of the wood siding in the short term. It still seems hard, isn't split and can be washed, scraped and painted. The trees that blocked the sunlight and caused the mildew have/will be pruned back. As to the porch roof, I want the old rusted mangled flashing removed (it's letting in water anyway) and some counter flashing applied. Does this sound like a decent temporary fix until the porch is rebuilt? What type of flashing is used when you can't put it under the siding? Should the new flashing stay as is? Here's a new pic.
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There is no flashing that can be applied properly by not removing a few courses of siding in your situation. Even if you scraped and repainted that siding, the paint will peel in a couple of years. The new flashing looks fine. From the way you talk, it sounds like you don't want to put any money into your place or don't have the money to do this work. I feel your pain but new wood siding and having that done is a one day job for any decent carpenter and shouldn't break your bank. Make sure the siding gets primed back, front, and cuts before it is reinstalled. You could even put a coat of paint on the front too.
Lesson Learned: Slowing it down and timing of repairs
btw -- I just bought the place and have tenants in there. Got a great deal knowing I'll do major work on it, so it is not a matter of not wanting to put money into it. Putting money and sweat equity into it is part of the plan. It's a timing and restoration issue. The porch is going to be rebuilt and I'll likely lose the new roof anyway at that time. (Shouldn't have taken the roofer's advice) I'm slowly getting bids and taking my time with carpenters/contractors, etc so as to avoid further double work. In the interim, I need to get the place appraised and keep my kids from calling their future home "hideous" so I need to maximize short term curb appeal. Plus, the only way to know how much of siding, etc needs to be replaced is for me to get up there clean it off and examine it. Dirt and peeling paint can hide rot or good bones. Plus, I may remove the rotted siding myself and leave the rest to the carpenter. And, soffit and fascia have to get repaired before I can put a gutter up on the main roof, getting bids on that as well. And obviously the whole place needs painting, etc. There are courses of siding that will be replaced in the back as well. It's a big job and I want to avoid the rip and run approach. Thanks for your suggestions. Sounds like we agree that the old rusty flashing has to go and the longterm solution calls for flashing underneath the siding.
Thanks. Are you saying that I should remove the old flashing, keep the new flashing but loosen or remove and replace (if rotted) a few courses of siding and just slide it under and reinstall the old (or new) siding?
btw -- I just bought the place and have tenants in there. Got a great deal knowing I'll do major work on it, so it is not a matter of not wanting to put money into it. Putting money and sweat equity into it is part of the plan. It's a timing and restoration issue. The porch is going to be rebuilt and I'll likely lose the new roof anyway at that time. (Shouldn't have taken the roofer's advice) I'm slowly getting bids and taking my time with carpenters/contractors, etc so as to avoid further double work. In the interim, I need to get the place appraised and keep my kids from calling their future home "hideous" so I need to maximize short term curb appeal. Plus, the only way to know how much of siding, etc needs to be replaced is for me to get up there clean it off and examine it. Dirt and peeling paint can hide rot or good bones. Plus, I may remove the rotted siding myself and leave the rest to the carpenter. And, soffit and fascia have to get repaired before I can put a gutter up on the main roof, getting bids on that as well. And obviously the whole place needs painting, etc. There are courses of siding that will be replaced in the back as well. It's a big job and I want to avoid the rip and run approach. Thanks for your suggestions. Sounds like we agree that the old rusty flashing has to go and the longterm solution calls for flashing underneath the siding.
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Several options can be considered for flashing the roof to the wall.
First option depends on the structural integrity of the existing wood siding and where it was nailed.
From doing the tear-off of the old layers of shingles, there should be at least a slight gap, if not larger from the bottom edge of the lowest clap-board piece of siding. If there is enough play, then carefully using a very small baby pry bar, enough room can be gained to slide the baby tin step flashings into position.
Second option, is to install the baby tins to the exterior of the wall and then make individual sections of counter flashings, which would then need to be mitered at the top edge as the slope of the roof makes each piece attempt to jump up to the next row of siding. You would want to trim off the metal, just shy of the bottom of that next row. Preferably, a bend will be made into the sheet metal for strength and possibly also as a caulk ledge receiver. Prior to screwing the sheet metal into position, a bead of NP-1 caulk should be inserted behind the flashing, so that it has a solid compression seal behind the metal as well as the top caulk receiver ledge. Some people use a foam backer rod as the compression seal also.
Third option, which I find to be the best option many times, is to snap a chalk line at the height of o 1" x 4" cedar board. Cut away the existing siding below that snapped chalk line. Install the baby tin step flashings as normal, since there is now no siding prohibiting it's usage.
Buy 10 foot long sections of aluminum Z-Flashing and install the high portion behind the remaining siding. (A Z-Flahing looks like a straight piece of metal, like the back rest of a chair, then a 90* bend for the next section of metal protruding out, like the seat of a chair, then another 90* piece of metal continuing on downward, like the front leg portion of a chair) Now, install the cedar 1" x 4" plumb against the wall and make sure it is tucked behind the leg portion of the Z-Flashing, Pre-Drill pilot holes in the Cedar so it does not split and crack.
Then screw it in place. As a final step before screwing it in place, you can also cut a 45* angle on the top edge that will tuck in behind the leg portion of the Z-Flashing to ensure that any water travelling down the wall will not have a wooden ledge to settle on.
The cedar should be stained prior to installation to either a color that matches the shingles or to a color that matches the color of the wall siding.
One of those suggestions should take care of any of your wall leak concerns.
Ed
First option depends on the structural integrity of the existing wood siding and where it was nailed.
From doing the tear-off of the old layers of shingles, there should be at least a slight gap, if not larger from the bottom edge of the lowest clap-board piece of siding. If there is enough play, then carefully using a very small baby pry bar, enough room can be gained to slide the baby tin step flashings into position.
Second option, is to install the baby tins to the exterior of the wall and then make individual sections of counter flashings, which would then need to be mitered at the top edge as the slope of the roof makes each piece attempt to jump up to the next row of siding. You would want to trim off the metal, just shy of the bottom of that next row. Preferably, a bend will be made into the sheet metal for strength and possibly also as a caulk ledge receiver. Prior to screwing the sheet metal into position, a bead of NP-1 caulk should be inserted behind the flashing, so that it has a solid compression seal behind the metal as well as the top caulk receiver ledge. Some people use a foam backer rod as the compression seal also.
Third option, which I find to be the best option many times, is to snap a chalk line at the height of o 1" x 4" cedar board. Cut away the existing siding below that snapped chalk line. Install the baby tin step flashings as normal, since there is now no siding prohibiting it's usage.
Buy 10 foot long sections of aluminum Z-Flashing and install the high portion behind the remaining siding. (A Z-Flahing looks like a straight piece of metal, like the back rest of a chair, then a 90* bend for the next section of metal protruding out, like the seat of a chair, then another 90* piece of metal continuing on downward, like the front leg portion of a chair) Now, install the cedar 1" x 4" plumb against the wall and make sure it is tucked behind the leg portion of the Z-Flashing, Pre-Drill pilot holes in the Cedar so it does not split and crack.
Then screw it in place. As a final step before screwing it in place, you can also cut a 45* angle on the top edge that will tuck in behind the leg portion of the Z-Flashing to ensure that any water travelling down the wall will not have a wooden ledge to settle on.
The cedar should be stained prior to installation to either a color that matches the shingles or to a color that matches the color of the wall siding.
One of those suggestions should take care of any of your wall leak concerns.
Ed
Thanks
I found a great carpenter who replaced some of the courses of siding as needed, reusing materials as much as he can and matching the siding very well, he properly put in flashing before the siding and then counter flashing. He back primed the wood first and I'm doing the exterior painting myself (except for a little help where I couldn't reach). He also reinforced the porch so it's fine until a total rebuild down the road. No leaks on the porch now, the house looks totally different, tenants are out and I'm rehabbing the inside for the next 9 days before I move in. I'll post a pic later. Thanks for your suggestions.
I found a great carpenter who replaced some of the courses of siding as needed, reusing materials as much as he can and matching the siding very well, he properly put in flashing before the siding and then counter flashing. He back primed the wood first and I'm doing the exterior painting myself (except for a little help where I couldn't reach). He also reinforced the porch so it's fine until a total rebuild down the road. No leaks on the porch now, the house looks totally different, tenants are out and I'm rehabbing the inside for the next 9 days before I move in. I'll post a pic later. Thanks for your suggestions.
Roof to siding using Z bar.
Ed the roofer,
Okay, I get how to repair my siding problem using z bar. My question is: I have 5/8" siding which meets the sloping shingled roof. I can't seem to find 5/8" ledged z bar whose upper leg is 1" to 2 " and lower leg of 3" to 4". I can find and have purchased 1" ledged z bar (2"x1"x4"). Can I use it since the z bar will be sloped parallel to the roof anyway;thanks.
4gy6
Ed the roofer,
Okay, I get how to repair my siding problem using z bar. My question is: I have 5/8" siding which meets the sloping shingled roof. I can't seem to find 5/8" ledged z bar whose upper leg is 1" to 2 " and lower leg of 3" to 4". I can find and have purchased 1" ledged z bar (2"x1"x4"). Can I use it since the z bar will be sloped parallel to the roof anyway;thanks.
4gy6
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2,384 Posts
You can use the oversized product, but there will be a gap.
Can you possibly find a siding crew working somewhere in your neighborhood and have them bend up some of the profile with colored aluminum and sized correctly for what you need?
If not a siding contractor, then a sheet metal shop.
Also, check with the siding supply houses, which can also be a part of a roofing supply house, such as ABC Building Supply and see what they have in stock.
Ed
Can you possibly find a siding crew working somewhere in your neighborhood and have them bend up some of the profile with colored aluminum and sized correctly for what you need?
If not a siding contractor, then a sheet metal shop.
Also, check with the siding supply houses, which can also be a part of a roofing supply house, such as ABC Building Supply and see what they have in stock.
Ed
Thanks Ed. It seems as if local places here (Lowes,84,HD)in So. Cal. stock 5/8" z bar but its 1"x5/8"x1". That's for windows-right? Since the vertical leg of the existing L flashing is about 3"-4" ,I think I'll have to cut the siding up at least to that height; that would be a long hard cut and I don't know if it can be done ( or at least I couldn't do it).
It's not as if the rainy season So. Cal. is close, so I have some time to find or have some one bend me a 5/8" 10 footer. Thanks again.:thumbup:
It's not as if the rainy season So. Cal. is close, so I have some time to find or have some one bend me a 5/8" 10 footer. Thanks again.:thumbup:
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Well porch repair would be the best option for your leaking roof. The choice of your previous roofer was not correct so go for another one who is well skilled in roofing. Nothing else would work so remove the old flashing and try for a new one.:thumbup:
Roofing Contractor Learn Roofing Minnesota
Roofing Contractor Learn Roofing Minnesota
Maureen, thanks,
The roofer overall did a great job. There are so many different roof angled slopes on my house with one draining upon another. The rest of the flashing is absolutely perfect and installed properly. This house is relatively new. They flashed the corner between the sidingand the roof correctly, but the didn't trim the siding high enough away from the corner's flashing so it "wicked" up moisture whenever it rained. Now I have to use Z Bar to repair it properly inorder meet very strict building codes.
The inspectors said I would have trouble. I ignored him and signed it off. I shouldn't have.
The roofer overall did a great job. There are so many different roof angled slopes on my house with one draining upon another. The rest of the flashing is absolutely perfect and installed properly. This house is relatively new. They flashed the corner between the sidingand the roof correctly, but the didn't trim the siding high enough away from the corner's flashing so it "wicked" up moisture whenever it rained. Now I have to use Z Bar to repair it properly inorder meet very strict building codes.
The inspectors said I would have trouble. I ignored him and signed it off. I shouldn't have.
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