[cb1234]

Does anybody can tell me what should be voltages on a 2HP Franklin pump Controller across RED&YELLOw, RED&BLACK and YELLOW&BALCK. I have a 2HP submersible Grondfus deep well pump that lately does not have the pressure it used to have. I know it could many things but I like to start with testing its controller first. It is a standard 2HP Franklin with 2 capacitors and 2 reset switches, and Relay. Motor has 3 wires Black,yellow,Red, it is 240V 1PH and is capacitor start and capacitor run motor. Any help is appreciated.

Here is a picture of the controller box. Or you can see it at http://www.wwpp.us/franklin/control-box.shtml

 

[nap]

you are better off taking a amp reading on the circuits. A cap causes some odd voltages to be read. If they are off, the current will reflect it.

I presume the start cap is dropping out relatively quick, yes?

 

[cb1234]

Hi nap,
Thanks for answering. I dont know how to check the run capacitor voltage but all voltages are (R&Y=240 and B&Y=240, and R&B=350+/-) as soon as I start the pump. It appears that there is no start high voltage.

 

[micromind]

Those voltages would not be out of line at all. The voltage across yellow and black should be equal to the line voltage. This is because these are the run winding of the motor, and thus are directly across the incoming lines.

Any voltage involving the red wire will be unpredictable. This is the start winding. In your control box, there is a capacitor in series with the start winding during both starting and running. (Two different capacitors). Voltage involving the red wire will vary with load on the motor.

The only way to determine if the motor is running properly is by current. For a 2 HP motor, yellow should be 10-13 amps, black should be 9-12, and red should be 2-3. If these are anywhere close, the problem is not the motor.

Most of the time, if the relay fails, it'll trip the overload, maybe the breaker feeding it.

Does your water have a lot of minerals in it? This can build up in the impellers and cause low pressure and low flow. Though there's likely no way to check it, the static level of the well can cause poor pump performance. It's also possible that the gauge isn't reading right, do the faucets seem sluggish?

If you can get a clamp-on amp meter (not the $5 one from Harbor Freight lol), we can determine if the problem is with the motor or somewhere else.

Rob

 

[cb1234]

Hi Micro,

thanks for reply.

Let me tell you more. This pump is for irrigation only and this motor used to produce up to 140 PSI and rising when I ran the pump and letting the pressure to build up for short time like 5 seconds or so, now it goes hardly to 60 PSI and stays, like there is break in the line inside the well. So, I put suction through the line, and it appeared that there was no break in line inside the well.
Yes, I have moderately hard water. So, you think, I have to get a new pump? I will do the AMP test tomorrow and let you know.

Thanks for the chat.

:thumbup:

 

[cb1234]

Those voltages would not be out of line at all. The voltage across yellow and black should be equal to the line voltage. This is because these are the run winding of the motor, and thus are directly across the incoming lines.

Any voltage involving the red wire will be unpredictable. This is the start winding. In your control box, there is a capacitor in series with the start winding during both starting and running. (Two different capacitors). Voltage involving the red wire will vary with load on the motor.

The only way to determine if the motor is running properly is by current. For a 2 HP motor, yellow should be 10-13 amps, black should be 9-12, and red should be 2-3. If these are anywhere close, the problem is not the motor.

Most of the time, if the relay fails, it'll trip the overload, maybe the breaker feeding it.

Does your water have a lot of minerals in it? This can build up in the impellers and cause low pressure and low flow. Though there's likely no way to check it, the static level of the well can cause poor pump performance. It's also possible that the gauge isn't reading right, do the faucets seem sluggish?

If you can get a clamp-on amp meter (not the $5 one from Harbor Freight lol), we can determine if the problem is with the motor or somewhere else.

Rob[/here are the measurments:
OHMS:
Y&B=3, Y&R=7.1, B&R=9.2
Currents
Y=12, B=10.7, R=2.56 as soon as it starts and no changes after start, is the Relay Ok?
Volts
Y&B=232, Y&R=248,R&B=325

it appears all numbers are healthy. I wonder why pressure does not build up(used to build up to 110) to shut off the pressure switch assuming no break in line between the motor and top of the well, what else you can think of?

Water is hard and used for irrigation only. Pressure switch is new so as the pressure gauge!!!

thanks

:furious:]

 

[micromind]

The motor is OK. If the relay had failed, the current on red would be more than 20 amps.

Is the pressure low against a closed valve, or with flow? Is the flow the same as always? Possible break in underground piping?

Could the old pressure gauge have been reading too high? If it ever froze with water in it, the tube inside will swell, and it'll read high.

Do the sprinklers act normal? Any air coming out after they've run for a while?

What I'm getting at here is does a problem exist other than the gauge reading? 110 PSI seems pretty high for an irrigation system. Not many components in a well system will stand that much pressure for very long, unless it was designed for it.

Rob

 

[cb1234]

Yes you got it. Pressure does not exceed 60PSI against closed valve. In other word, it appears the water escapes from behind the motor. before the pressure at the well read about 60 PSI when valves were open with good jump at the heads but now 22 PSI with not good jump at sprinkler heads. When I connect to city water and the same heads seems to do much better. It appears that there is a break inside the well but when the motor starts I feel the continuity of the line. I feel the reaction that the motor produces on the pipes to the top of the well. That gives me suspicion that lines are ok as well, maybe a crack but not seperation. What is important is that the motor is good. I think I need to pull it up and look at it.

:wink:

 

[micromind]

I think that pulling the pump is the best option at this point. It's pretty obvious that the problem is between the valve and the pump, or the pump itself.

Submersible pumps have a motor and several impellers. These are also known as stages. The more stages, the higher the pressure (and deeper the well), but lower flow. It's possible that one or more of the impellers is destroyed, or has come loose from the shaft. Just because the pump looks OK, don't assume that it actually is.

Hopefully, you'll find a split in the pipe somewhere, and it'll be an easy fix!

Rob

 

[cb1234]

Thanks Rob,

you are a great man.

take care

 

[laniakea]

Pump Readings

I have the exact pump and controller combination but my readings are as follows:

2.5 Red
12.3 Black
13.4 Red

Every so often the left Klixon (reset) switch trips. I can reset it and it works sometimes for 5 or so minutes, sometimes weeks. Are the windings in the pump getting weak or should I look at something else.

Thank You in Advance