[Micahhvac]

Purchased a home and I need to run two ( dedicated single outlets) 20 Amp outlets about 10 feet away( in the attached garage).
The wiring from the panel normally run up and through the attic, however someone has already made a hole under the panel and ran a 30A 120V which I Would like to remove.

What method would you use?

Initially, I wanted to use Romex, But it cannot be exposed(For protection) and Romex cannot be in conduit.

I prefer the PVC 40 route, since I can easily cut it and add bends.

However, Does this limit me to THHN wiring?

I would really like to NOT mess with the 20ish already running wires from the top of the panel, it would also make the wire about 25-30ft long going through the attic and inside wall. Which Is why I chose the "on the wall" method.


The loads are resistive And will run 1500W dedicated per outlet. These will be used, probably 6-8 hours almost every day.

Obviously, 12/2 was my choice with the NM, The THHN should be the same I believe.



I want to use Solid wire, not stranded.

So Would I Just attach the PVC 40 to the panel, out of the drywall, and run it along the wall to the outlets? Do these outlet boxes have a requirement of being metal or plastic? As well, Could I run both sets of wires in the same PVC 40? I had intended on using 1/2" but I could easily go with 3/4". I haven't went to the store yet.

As for splitting the wire from the one run if acceptable, Could I use a T and have one outlet above the other?


I've been reading up on it quite a bit, and my god a ton of opinions are out there. I'm really just looking for the safest ( from physical damage) route, as well as I don't want the wires to overheat.

 

[anyacolo]

your making this way too complicated,


just use 12/2 romex,


if your concerned about it getting damaged somehow then use 12/2 armored BX cable

 

[Micahhvac]

your making this way too complicated,


just use 12/2 romex,


if your concerned about it getting damaged somehow then use 12/2 armored BX cable

I 100% absolutely agree, And I've never heard of that. I'll look into it.

Thank you!

 

[Micahhvac]

Man, How on earth did I NOT see that stuff? I mean.... Thanks. Seriously.

 

[anyacolo]

also make sure your using outlets rated for 20 amps

 

[rjniles]

You can run NM in conduit.

If you use simplex receptacles they must be 20 amp, if duplex receptacles they can be 15 amp.

 

[Jim Port]

The receptacles should be gfi protected since they are in the garage.

 

[Micahhvac]

You can run NM in conduit.

If you use simplex receptacles they must be 20 amp, if duplex receptacles they can be 15 amp.

I had read that somewhere, but 95% of the code references and opinions I find say you can't. I don't want to take any chances with the circuits being almost maxed out as it is- I really don't want to worry in the back of my mind about heat dissipation every time I use them.


I went with the above method, now my problem is the connectors for the shielded wire are in the way. They pop in so far inside, the outlet cannot go into the box safely. I can't find any way around it other than using a 2-gang box. Unless again i'm missing something.

 

[Micahhvac]

The receptacles should be gfi protected since they are in the garage.

Really? It has 8 outlets already and it passed several inspections with no mention of it( when we purchased it). But I see how it could be considered a wet location, But wouldn't that also prohibit the use of Romex and shielded wiring, since they are for dry locations?



Either way, Thanks for bringing it up. It's something to look into.

 

[Jim Port]

Where are all these references that NM is prohibited in conduit?

Article 210.8 has the gfi requirements for garages. Was this a home inspector? It does not have to be a wet area to require gfi protection.

 

[Myvalk99]

Really? It has 8 outlets already and it passed several inspections with no mention of it( when we purchased it). But I see how it could be considered a wet location, But wouldn't that also prohibit the use of Romex and shielded wiring, since they are for dry locations?



Either way, Thanks for bringing it up. It's something to look into.

Those outlets may be protected by a gfci outlet upstream or by a gfci breaker.

 

[betelgeuse]

if your concerned about it getting damaged somehow then use 12/2 armored BX cable

BX(AC cable), MC cable, and flexible conduits have the exact same requirements for protection from physical damage as Romex (NM)

 

[seharper]

Purchased a home and I need to run two ( dedicated single outlets) 20 Amp outlets about 10 feet away( in the attached garage). What method would you use?

Initially, I wanted to use Romex, But it cannot be exposed(For protection) and Romex cannot be in conduit.

It can but it has to be HUUUUUGE conduit, and that makes it prohibitive. And silly. You will need 1" conduit for your two 12/2NM cable, and even that won't work with schedule 80 PVC (you'd have to go 1-1/4" for that).

I actually have a case where somebody managed to chicken-choke two 12/2 NM cable down a 3/4" conduit. I had to tear the conduit down; I can't get the cables out.

I prefer the PVC 40 route, since I can easily cut it and add bends.

The problem is PVC 40 is crud for physical protection. I don't know why people are so in love with it, but I have skillz at working in EMT. EMT metal conduit is vastly superior and meets the physical protection requirement. You can either use pre-made bends or bend it with a simple bender tool. The hardware is cheap. Couplers are easy. 1/2" EMT will let you run up to 4 circuits.

Obviously, 12/2 was my choice with the NM, The THHN should be the same I believe.

#12 isn't a choice with NM, it's the minimum allowable size. Sometimes THHN will allow a smaller wire than NM, but that only happens at 50A or above.

However, Does this limit me to THHN wiring?

I want to use Solid wire, not stranded.

Only because you're not familiar with it.

I would not hesitate to do that job in 1/2" EMT using 4 stranded THHN wires. Pulling stranded is a pleasure, not a chore. One solid wire in there and things get tedious. Everything I do is THHN. I have 10 sizes of #12 and I don't even stock solid. Now, stranded is harder to put on receptacle screws, but you can just pigtail the last 4 inches, or use screw-and-clamp receps (such as those found on GFCIs). Stranded works fine on breakers and wirenuts.

So Would I Just attach the PVC 40 to the panel, out of the drywall, and run it along the wall to the outlets? Do these outlet boxes have a requirement of being metal or plastic?

With PVC nobody cares. With EMT you are better off using metal boxes, because if the entire route is metal, the EMT is the ground and you don't need any ground wires. That's one less color of wire to buy. I don't own any green!

As well, Could I run both sets of wires in the same [conduit]?
As for splitting the wire from the one run if acceptable, Could I use a T and have one outlet above the other?

You can have up to 4 circuits per conduit. However you need to use electrical tape to bundle the wires of each circuit together reasonably near both ends, so it is obvious to the next guy which neutral goes with which hot! Very important!

You can use a "tee" conduit body if you like, but the cover must remain accessible forever. You can also run the pipe through box 1 and then onward to box 2, and just pass box 2's wires through the back of the first box. You're at liberty to route the pipes as you please.

I'm really just looking for the safest ( from physical damage) route, as well as I don't want the wires to overheat.

The safest is EMT. (well the safest is Rigid, but I doubt you own a pipe threader; EMT is close enough). Second safest is Sched 80 PVC, but EMT is probably easier to work with once you get the hang of it. The wires won't overheat with <=4 circuits per conduit and don't overfill the conduit (e.g. cable in non-huge conduit).

You will need GFCI protection inside a garage unless you get a waiver. If your Code/application requires a 1-socket outlet, the socket ampacity must match the breaker exactly, so it must have the T-shaped neutral. There are 3 ways to do GFCI on a 1-socket:

- a GFCI breaker ($40) to a 1-socket recep.
- a GFCI deadfront which looks like a recep with no sockets, feeding each socket. I would mount both deadfronts in their own 4-11/16" square box (you'll need the space).
- A GFCI combo outlet and switch, but you'll never find it in 20A.

If your application allows a 2-socket outlet then just fit common GFCI receps. Putting those in a metal box can be tricky; get a deep 4x4 metal box and a 1-gang mud ring at least 1/2" tall. Do not confuse a mud ring for a domed cover! You don't want a domed cover with GFCI.

One way to do "1 socket + GFCI" is fit a 2-gang steel box with a deadfront in the left and a 1-socket in the right. Finding a cover plate for this may be tricky, though.

If you split a dual 20A recep and put a circuit on each socket, you must handle-tie the circuit breakers (or use a 2-pole). That's to protect a maintainer from getting nailed.