[Homestead31]

hi all. i recently bought a house that has 2 gas powered heat systems. there is a steam system that heats the original house, and a hot water system running off a weil-mclain CG series 11 boiler / standing pilot ignition system.

i'm having trouble with the hot water system.

in my attempts to diagnose, i turned it off, and then back on awhile later. when i turned it on, it fired up, the flue opened, and i thought i was all set. however, after about a minute it turned itself off - despite the fact that the thermostat was still in the on position - and the flue closed.

i should mention that a few weeks ago i had the baseboard moved. it had previously been bumped out into the room under a built-in tv/book case that i got rid of, so i had a plumber come in and bring the pipe back against the wall. after seeing it done, i thought to myself, "i could have done that and saved $300" b/c my understanding was that all that happened was they drained the pipe, took out a few elbows, and put the pipe back together.

anyway, it has finally gotten cold here in the northeast, and i am noticing for the first time since the baseboard was moved that the heat isn't coming up. i'm not sure if that is related to the fact that the system was drained (meaning maybe they didn't put enough water back in etc?) or if it is totally unrelated to teh baseboard thing.

anyone have any thoughts? i have had 3 different plumbers in the house since i moved in and the thought of calling another makes me want to puke, so if there is a simple fix here, i'd love to hear ideas.

thanks

 

[roughneck]

What's the temperature/pressure of the boiler? Are the pumps running? Have you bled the system at all?

 

[Homestead31]

i've been living in an apartment for most of my life until this house, so boilers are new to me. not sure if the pumps are running (or how to tell) and i have not bled the system at all (nor do i know how to, although i'm sure i can figure it out if that is recommended.)

temp looks to be about 155 - 160, and psi is about 10 as far as i can tell. the gauge is in an odd spot that is tough to see.


any hand holding is appreciated

thanks

 

[roughneck]

Sounds like the boiler is running ok, so it's probably air bound or you have a pump issue. Pressure is a bit low.
Find your bleeders.

 

[Homestead31]

thanks roughneck - just to clarify - my understanding from what you are saying is that one potential cause of the problem is that there is air stuck in the system... if i bleed the system, i will be able to get the air out, which may fix the problem.

is that right?

i'm just trying to read about air in the system a bit, and it seems like a common sign is banging pipes. i am not experiencing any banging in the pipes. in your experience is it still potentially air in the system?

also, would air in the system shut the boiler down? (meaning just the pilot remains lit, rather than the whole boiler firing). i was just reading one thing that said that if there is air in the system the boiler will still run, but heat won't make it up to the baseboards.

thanks again - any input appreciated.

 

[beenthere]

Boiler may only be running for a minute because no water is moving through it, allowing the boiler to come up to its set limit temp quickly.

Air in the pipes often doesn't cause banging pipes.

 

[jimn]

How many stories (floors) does this holier heat, excluding the basement ? The pressure is a little low for a two story house. It should be closer to 12 to 15psi. THe method for filling and bleeding the system differs depending on how the boiler is piped. Can you take some pictures of the boiler and e piping near it? It sounds like a low water condition. If it's really low, you might want to shutdown . Low water conditions can damage boilers. Been there is correct , pipes in a hot water system rarely if ever bang. Excess air in the system is mostly heard as a gurgling sound as water runs through the pipes. Air in your steam system however (and others issues as well) can cause banging in the steam system.

 

[Homestead31]

thanks for the helpful replies. i figured out how to bleed the lines and after a few gurgles of air came out, the heat is working again.

much appreciated

 

[Homestead31]

ok - so i thought this was done, but i have another question if y'all don't mind.

to recap - hot water heat was not working - i bled the lines, and then it started working... but now i am hearing some gurgling and sloshing in the baseboards - it is loud enough that you hear it right away w/o trying even if the tv is on.

i am assuming this is just more air trapped in the lines... like i bled some, but not all of the air - and i should just bleed some more...

i should note that i bled at the boiler, and so far i have not found any valves on the actual baseboards.

boiler is in the basement, baseboard is first floor.

any thoughts? or confirmation that i should just bleed more?

thanks in advance

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,.... You should have a bleeder or 2 along the baseboard, Somewhere,...
Alittle cap or screw lookin' thing, probably on or near an elbow fittin',...

Yes, ya still got air, need to bleed it better,....

 

[Homestead31]

no luck finding a bleeder along the base board, although there are a few feet that i can't access at the moment. i tried just draining more water from the main spigot, but no luck getting any bubbles out. there is what i think is a bleeder on the main hot water pipe after the first elbow about 48" above the boiler. does that sound right? i'm not sure how to post pictures.

also - stupid question maybe - but the other half of the house (the original half) is on steam heat, and the boiler has an auto fill water thing. the hot water heat system does not - i am assuming that the hot water tank just automatically fills it and keeps the pressure where it should be (currently around 30 psi) is that right?

 

[beenthere]

Your hot water boiler shouldn't be at 30 PSIG. 12 to 15 is more like it.

Your steam boiler should have a different style of water feed.

 

[Homestead31]

ok, thanks beenthere. i am starting to think there is something else going on here b/c the pressure was at 10 psi before i drained some water when the heat wasn't working. after draining, the heat started working, although i could still hear sloshing in the baseboards, and the psi was up to 30.

i'm thinking the pressure jump means the auto water feed put to much water in.

does that sound right?

thanks again

 

[Homestead31]

just checked pressure again... back down around 14ish. the heat is not running at the moment as it is turned down at night. before when it was up around 30 the heat was just coming up and the baseboards were at maximum gurgle.

 

[supers05]

Sounds like you might not have a expansion tank or one that's not big enough at least. (or one full of water)

Hot water expands, so the system pressure will climb with temperature. If the pressure relief isn't dripping, then I wouldn't worry too much. At 15psig then again at 30psig, you pass through different jurisdictional rules where I live. That's why we try to keep pressure down. Some systems are only designed for lower pressures, but yours seams to be holding up OK. Higher then rated pressures over prolonged periods can lead to premature failures.

Yes, you still have plenty of air in the system. You'll have to purge at the highest point. Purge until you don't have gurgling anymore.

Cheers!

 

[beenthere]

just checked pressure again... back down around 14ish. the heat is not running at the moment as it is turned down at night. before when it was up around 30 the heat was just coming up and the baseboards were at maximum gurgle.

Could be the gauge is not accurate, or the auto feed is bleeding water, or the expansion tank has a problem.

Can you post a pic of the expansion tank, and of the piping around the boiler.

 

[Homestead31]

sorry for the slow reply - wife had a baby, so everything has been on hold... but now that the baby is home, heat is more important than ever!

the first pic - which is tilted on its side - shows the overall system, with the smaller unit being the hot water unit that has air trapped in it that i can't get out. the 2nd picture shows the heat out pipe in the foreground, and what might be some kind of bleeder on it, and the heat return pipe is in the background with a bleeder on it. the 3rd picture is a close up the bleeder on the heat return pipe, which as far as i can tell is the only bleeder on the line. i have not found any kind of bleeder along the baseboards.

it seems odd to me that the only bleeder would be on the return line, but that seems to be the case.

any thoughts on how to get the air out of the system?

thanks

 

[beenthere]

Could be my bad eyes. But I don't see any pics.

 

[Homestead31]

lets try that again... hopefully pics will attach this time.

 

[beenthere]

Can you post a pic of the piping at the circulator. may have a purge set up on that side of the boiler.