[jldz140]

I'm in the process of remodeling a house I just purchased. It originally had a tile walk in shower that apparently wasn't done correctly. It had leaked through and rotted pretty much the entire floor. I have torn it all the way down and built it back up to where I need help.

This is a picture of the shower as it is now. It's about 6' long 5' wide.

I'm putting a shower head on both the left and right. The walls will probably be 13" tile and 2-3" tile on the floor.
I've been doing a lot of reading and have mixed feelings on what to do next. Could someone please help me on how to go about it from here? I would appreciate any help that anyone could give me. Thanks for reading!

 

[drtbk4ever]

Hi Jldz,
Please let us know where you live?

Is the wall on the left an outside wall?

 

[jldz140]

I live near Charlotte,NC. The left wall as you look at it in the picture is the outside wall. The wall in front of you butts up to a closet and the one on the right is the master bedroom.

 

[oh'mike]

How to build a shower - Building a shower pan with pre-sloped mortar bed, liner and curb.

There are three good methods for constructing a custom base----

The link above is for a lined deck mud base---done correctly they will give you a fine shower--

Another is the surface membrane systems---Schluter /Kerdi is the best known---Much more expensive for the components than a lined base but simpler to construct--

The third one is the paint on membrane type--Hydroban by Latacrete is one of the best--
Although tried and trusted--I will only build that type over a concrete floor---that's just me--

Do a google search or Youtube---Latacrete and Schluter have informative web sites.

Come back and ask questions----there are plenty of experienced members here.

 

[DannyT]

i don't see a drain or a hole for one

 

[brockmiera]

Where are your water supply lines?

 

[oh'mike]

Calm down---this just might be a dry shower---popular in the dessert regions of Arizona and Utah--




-or the picture could show a project under construction---Drain type needs to match the type of base----so it would not be installed yet? Right?

 

[brockmiera]

Can those water lines be run on an exterior wall?

 

[oh'mike]

OP is in North Carolina----I would never recommend piping inside an outside wall--It might be possible that far south---

 

[jldz140]

It's actually a dry shower as stated before... Really, there is no drain hole cut yet. When I tore out everything and put down the floor I didn't cut the hole. But, I assure you I will.. Water lines will still have to be ran. The old lines are cut off because they were leaking due to poor construction, hence all the rotten wood I had to replace. I don't think running a waterline on the outside wall, especially pex will be an issue here in NC.

 

[jldz140]

So here's my plan of action if some of you experts will critique it and fill in any needed information.

1. I'm going to drill a hole in the center of the floor to install the drain.
2. Install the roofing felt and the wire mesh and staple it down.
3. Install the bottom flange. (Any ideas on what type of drain to buy would be appreciated)
4. Next is mixing the sand mix. What kind of sand mix do I need to buy? Like if I walk in the store do I just ask for sand mix? Should I put the latex additive in it?
5. I'm planning to put a chalk line about 1 1/2" up on the wall where I will taper from it down even with the top of the bottom flange.
6. Now I'll pack it until it is firm and make sure there are no low or high spots from the wall to the drain.
7. Let it sit for a day or so.
8. Install the shower pan liner that I plan to buy at daltile. Staple it in at the tops and cut my drain hole out.
9. Now I'll put a sealant (what kind?) between the pan and the top flange which I will now install.
10. Now I'll put the wire mesh around the curb and only staple it on the outside.
11. Next ill install the backer board to the walls leaving 1/4" gap between the bottom of the pan and the board.
12. Now for the deck mud. I'm planning to figure out how high it will be on the wall with the proper drop and striking another chalk line. I will start at the wall and work towards the drain.
13. After its firmly packed and dry And complete the curb I'm ready for tile.
14. I'll probably use 2" tile for the floor. I'm assuming I use grey thin set just like I have on any floor that I've put in over backer board. Is that correct? If the mud bed I made isn't gong to dry hard will some of it not try to come up and get mixed into the thin set?
15. After that has set what kind of grout would you suggest? After the grout I'll mo e on to the walls.
16. I've seen plenty of talk about putting moisture barriers etc on the wall. Will I need to do this or just put the ceramic tile directly on the backer board.

I sure appreciate all of your help. This is my first attempt at a shower. I'm a true diy'r and far from a professional so your professional expertise is greatly appreciated.

 

[oh'mike]

You can get bags of premixed deck mud from Daltile---or even use masons mortar

No need for tar paper or mesh for the Preslope---Right on top of the subfloor is fine

Get the drainset from a plumbing supply---ask for a square cover-the round ones are a lot of trouble to cut around-----they will have the PVC membrane also

I use epoxy grout---if you use cement based grout--get sanded or unsaned to match the grout line size---

Water proof the face of the backer board with Redguard--Hydroban or Aqua Defense--no need to add a vapor barrier if you do that.

 

[jeffnc]

16. I've seen plenty of talk about putting moisture barriers etc on the wall. Will I need to do this or just put the ceramic tile directly on the backer board.

The problem with moisture barriers in the humid South is that it will trap moisture on the outside of the plastic (due to the cool, dry conditions on the inside of the house compared to the hot/humid conditions on the outside in the summer), and then rot your studs.

However, you're in a catch-22, because you could also get rot from water seeping through the cement board.

I'd just put up drywall instead and install Kerdi and a Schluter shower. Get with the 21st century!

 

[JazMan]

jldz140, (btw, how do you pronounce that? Would be nice to call you by name).

Lots of good questions and many steps are correct for a traditional shower. But as Jeff said, I'd rather see you build a shower that is waterproof and water-tight instead. Kerdi is a great way to go.

So you should reconsider which method you want to proceed with. I'll be happy to critique this method though.

Jaz

 

[jldz140]

My name is Jeff, also.. I looked at the Kerdi system. It seemed to be quite expensive. I'm on somewhat of a budget so I'm trying to do a good job but not break the bank. Could I do the traditional mud bottom but use the Kerdi boards on the wall? Just trying to save some money.
Would it be a terrible idea to just use cement board on the walls?

 

[jeffnc]

My name is Jeff, also.. I looked at the Kerdi system. It seemed to be quite expensive. I'm on somewhat of a budget so I'm trying to do a good job but not break the bank. Could I do the traditional mud bottom but use the Kerdi boards on the wall? Just trying to save some money.
Would it be a terrible idea to just use cement board on the walls?

You can definitely use mud on the bottom, then Kerdi over that. However 1 big advantage is the Kerdi drain which is integrated with the mounting flange and therefore also waterproof without worrying about weep holes, etc.

Using cement board on the walls kind of defeats the purpose since they're not waterproof - the primary advantage of Kerdi is waterproofing completely and conveniently. A better way to save money would be to not use the Kerdi boards since they're expensive, but install Kerdi membrane over plain drywall. The Kerdi will cost, but drywall is less expensive than cement board. Then there are the cement board screws, and then waterproofing the cement board somehow will cost extra as well.

 

[BigJim]

You can definitely use mud on the bottom, then Kerdi over that. However 1 big advantage is the Kerdi drain which is integrated with the mounting flange and therefore also waterproof without worrying about weep holes, etc.

Using cement board on the walls kind of defeats the purpose since they're not waterproof - the primary advantage of Kerdi is waterproofing completely and conveniently. A better way to save money would be to not use the Kerdi boards since they're expensive, but install Kerdi membrane over plain drywall. The Kerdi will cost, but drywall is less expensive than cement board. Then there are the cement board screws, and then waterproofing the cement board somehow will cost extra as well.

Even with the Kerdi, I wouldn't trust the sheet rock in a shower. JMHO

 

[jeffnc]

Even with the Kerdi, I wouldn't trust the sheet rock in a shower.

No reason not to, it works fine. Most people don't trust products or technologies that are new to them. For some reason in the trades, people are very slow to adopt new technologies. In other fields, such as computer science, the rate of change is mind bogglingy fast. In the trades, it's mind numbingly slow. No good reason for that other than "I do it the way I've always done it", or "I don't have time to learn or experiment with that".

If this were the computer field, Kerdi would be so old it would have been obsolete 20 years ago. And yet people in the US still have yet to use it or even hear of it. Weird.

It hasn't been called cheap, but it certainly is good.

 

[JazMan]

Even with the Kerdi, I wouldn't trust the sheet rock in a shower.

And why not? With Kerdi I can make swiss cheese waterproof. :laughing:

Jeff, no one knows what your meaning of expensive or breaking the bank is. What have you looked at so far?

I would highly recommend doing the Kerdi with Kerdi Drain for the floor and at least partially up the walls if you go with concrete backer board on the walls. But you should be able to get the drain and enough fabric to do the floor & walls for $300-400. This way you only have to place one deck mud floor base and it'll be waterproof.

Most showers I sell cost 3.5-6k including tiles and labor. You're saving 65-70% by doing the work yourself. What will you save if it has to be re done in 5-10 years?

Jaz

 

[BigJim]

And why not? With Kerdi I can make swiss cheese waterproof. :laughing:

Jeff, no one knows what your meaning of expensive or breaking the bank is. What have you looked at so far?

I would highly recommend doing the Kerdi with Kerdi Drain for the floor and at least partially up the walls if you go with concrete backer board on the walls. But you should be able to get the drain and enough fabric to do the floor & walls for $300-400. This way you only have to place one deck mud floor base and it'll be waterproof.

Most showers I sell cost 3.5-6k including tiles and labor. You're saving 65-70% by doing the work yourself. What will you save if it has to be re done in 5-10 years?

Jaz

Just goes to show ya how much an ole nail whooper knows about the new things, that must be some good stuff.