[Trillium4]

I will try to post once again since my last post which took me a long time to write was rejected because it had links in it. I would have been nice to just let me fix it first.

OK so I have read endless reviews on these rectangle stainless steel sinks. I will not bother to put a link to it but you will have to look it up. It is a Ruvati RVH8000. These are imported by a small outfit out of Texas who don't answer their phones. I had ordered on Amazon but it never shipped and then I just canceled it since Amazon had no idea when it would ship. Since then now it is out of stock. But so many companies are selling this type of sink even Kohler and Moen and Elkay etc.

The problems with these from the reviews are:

1. Apparently one woman found out after the fact that you can't install them on laminate counter even though it is marketed that way. Very little on this but some nuggets I found said it was due to condensation that will de-laminate the laminate. Also the thin sides are not great for holding weight on laminate counter.

2. They don't drain properly and now these brands are training buyers to wipe these sinks out to prevent puddling. Not going to do it.

3. They SAY they are 16 gage but that seems odd since some are complaining about the noise with them. Amazon is just horrible in showing reviews for various sinks so you have no idea many times what sink the review is for. So I wonder if this is a nut shell game where it says it is 16 but ends up being 18 or more gage.

4. Customer service with these companies is just awful.

5. These things bend up before and during shipping.

6. The clips are inadequate.

7. They have plastic drains and you have to spend 30ish to buy a decent one.

8. The sites show high prices for them (Ruvati) so when you find it at half off at big online retailers you think it is a better quality and a bargain when it really isn't.

9. They bend in the middle (Kohler)

10. I know Ruvati is Chinese imports is all and they never got their faucets certified lead free so what did they use for these sinks? I just don't know if you can trust these sinks from China.

There is a great site that breaks down the faucet brands of where they are made but that link got me in trouble so you will have to find the site for Star Craft Custom builders and search for it on there. It explained a lot about these Chinese imported brands.

Have you installed these types of sinks and have you had them for awhile and what were your experiences with them? Did you install them on laminate counter and how did that work out. Any falling down yet? How did you prevent condensation from the under side of the sink to the laminate ends?

Would appreciate any insights you may have on this. Thank you.

 

[chandler48]

From your review, it just bears out the statement....would you trust your children to play with Chinese toys, and would you eat meat processed in China. I think it would get a resounding NO.

 

[lenaitch]

Every one of your numbered points argues against buying the product. It seems like an awful lot of bother when there are all sorts of domestically-made sinks available.

 

[de-nagorg]

I agree with others, If it quacks like a Duck, Walks like a Duck, and has feathers, it ain't a Dog.

That said, I have had a SS sink for over 35 years, and have forgot who made it, but have never had any condensation, on the underside.

For condensation you will have to have a very humid environment, as well as a very hot contents of the sink for long periods of time.


ED

 

[Nealtw]

http://www.ruvati.com/products/rvh8000/


Flat sides will be much more flexible than ones that are stamped in the more rounded shapes. Some sinks come with undercoating on the back which helps with the noise, something like that could be added.

On a regular sink when I could not use the tie down clamps I just put down a bead of silicone under it and put two 5 gallon pales of water in it for 24 hours.

 

[Trillium4]

Well the reason I am looking at this type of sink is these are the ones that are being peddled by the small and the big brands for this size. They are all selling Chinese stuff now. So to say avoid Chinese stuff is easy to say but almost impossible to do. I wanted a 33 x 22 x 9 ~.

Another Kohler version which is Model # K-20060-1-NA is more like the older looking sinks but this one bends or buckles in the middle too. I found two separate reviews for this same issue. So not sure if there are ANY sinks this size in 18 or 16 gage with one bowl in a 33 x 22 x 9 that is made to decent standards. No one seems to be making one from what I can tell. I haven't found one yet. That is why I am asking if anyone has actually worked with these sinks since this is all we are being peddled right now in this size.

As far as condensation, I guess since the sink is so wide and close to the sides of a cabinet, and not much of a lip apparently, it will drip or in close contact with the laminate on the particle board type counter top. I think a wider lip would keep the bowl farther away from the particle board counter? No one has gone into the details of how it happens just that it has happened. It may condensate under the lip in parts that are not completely siliconed and then drip too?

As far as weight, the wider the surface area the more weight can be distributed so those thinner sides maybe the problem of not being able to distribute the weight well and put too much pressure on the counter. I have read these under mount ones with even thinner sides are failing too. It makes sense.

It also may explain why these top mounted chinese sinks with harder counter tops like granite will work but those of us who don't want to spend so much for counter top we have very few options. I feel like we are being pushed to spend way more than we should have to. I really don't want a granite anchor around my neck to manage it and to pay for it. I have personally known others who have had them and they have to seal them and one had an area that got chipped and then you have to avoid those that emit low levels of radiation. You have to hire people to install it. It just never ends and this is the new standard that seems to have taken over. I like the easy care of laminate. We can install it. I can change it up much more easily at lower cost. It is sanitary. I don't have to seal it. It is much less likely to chip etc etc etc. I have this older sink which is inside dimensions 28" x 15" by 7" depth that holds up just fine I got off of craig's list for 30.00. So I know this size can hold up and do well but not the new ones so far. This older one has five holes in it and they are impossible to deal with removing the hard water around the faucet, the separate handle, sprayer, soap dispenser and a filtered water faucet I removed.

Maybe there is a brand I have not considered that really does make them like they used to. I wanted a one hole and one bowl with easy hard water clean up. I am also seeing these sinks with the drain not centered but off to one side in the one bowl. Not sure if these are a good idea but they could be.

 

[ZTMAN]

I was at the National Builders Show a few years ago on the last day of the show. The Chinese bath vendors just left all of their displays behind after the show ended.
I picked up a sink that was discarded on a booth floor. Weighed about 1/3 what you would normally see in the typical US stores.

 

[Trillium4]

Interesting. I am not surprised. Plus there are so many false reviews out there that help push sales on this stuff too. Hard to know what to believe on these big retailer sites. That is why I came here to see what others have to say. Thanks for sharing : )

 

[huesmann]

Many sinks have sound damping materials attached to the bottom. If your sink fails to come with them you can always add some.

 

[Trillium4]

So what type of material is the best to use on reducing noise on these thinly manufactured sinks?

I have read some have used foam but kind of unsightly and all. Some have put patches of other stuff, maybe rubber on it.

Is there a way to install these sinks so they will work well for laminate counter with such thin sides to them? Maybe seal up the particle board edging around the opening?

I see these farmhouse type of sinks but I ordered a false front to my new sink cabinet (Barker's Cabinets) so I could store and access scrubbies in the false front. Plus you need a special cabinet for those and I didn't order that one.

I thought it would be no big deal finding a decent stainless steel sink for laminate counter but I assumed wrong.

I am still fuming with the crummy Whirlpool fridge I bought about 3 yrs ago. I first noticed rust spots after only 4 months. I was using their cleaner too! The fridge is noisy and it easily dented on the front and I don't recall how the dent even occurred. I couldn't believe they would sell such junk and I spent a pretty penny on it too. I have a very old refrigerator in the garage that makes less noise and not dented from about the 1970's. This whole thing about going stainless steel was another terrible thing pushed on consumers and marketed day and night. I would never buy another stainless steel appliance again!!! So many bad reviews for the finish. When I called Whirlpool after 4 months of owning it they said sorry about the rust but we only warranty if against rust the first 30 days. OMG they are just sleazy. The CEO of Whirlpool retired with huge golden parachute and well he ruined the brand. Whirlpool was known for making better fridges and freezers but now I can't trust them at all!

I will say that Miele makes a killer dishwasher at close to the same costs as the box stores crummy brands if you get the display on the front from builder supply retailer. There is another stupid design thing where they hide the display now in new dishwashers. I like being able to look across the room to see it if is finished or how much time left on it. When I went shopping for a new dishwasher it was a joke. These investment firms that bought out some of these appliance companies put almost zero engineering into these machines and when they had to reduce energy use with them to appease the feds they just made them smaller and now they don't dry much at all. I had to laugh when I first opened one of these at the box stores since it was ridiculously smaller. I would image it only creates more energy use since many will run two loads now to get the same amount of dishes washed. I blame the feds and the manufacturers for that big fail.

I was talking to some appliance manufacturer customer service a few months back. Can't recall which one it was but what was interesting is how our conversation went. I complained how now you have to dry your dishes after taking them out of dishwasher now due to all the energy saving features they have now. She explained to me that now the dryers are the same way. They do not dry like they used to in order to save energy. She said hold onto your old drier as long as you can since the new ones are worse. Ironic to hear that from customer service gal who had been there a long time. I feel like the whole energy conservation is being put on the shoulder's of housewives more so who get to deal with half baked appliance today. I don't see power tools having to save energy in the same way. Having a drill that only turns part way and they you have to manually turn it.

My Bosch washing machine has to use super hot water now regularly because these front load machines end up getting moldy. There was a class action law suit on it, didn't help me one wit. So now I have to use the sanitary cycle to keep the mold from growing in there and to keep the door open to air out when not in use. Using hot water is NOT an energy saver at all. For years these manufacturers were recommending these washing machine cleaning tablets that were just powerful air freshners for it is all. For several washes you cloths smelled of this cleaner and it was over powering. It was not really cleaning the machine much but masking the moldy odors.

I wanted to buy a wall oven that would vent outside like the old ones did but they are no more. So we all get to breath the toxic fumes in the house when we do the self cleaning setting. So many have complained on this issue and NOTHING has changed back to better. It just gets worse and worse.

When they changed up the dishwasher soap to protect the environment that created a mess for consumers since the dishwashers relied on that soap to actually clean the dishes. I tried so many different soaps to actually try to clean the dishes and non of them worked now that they removed I think it was the sulfates. Only when I bought my Miele dishwasher could I actually get clean dishes again.

After so many abuses by this sector I am very reluctant to pay out for anything new unless absolutely necessary since I have been burned over and over by these sleazy appliance companies. I am thinking if my drier dies and I can't resuscitate it I will look for a refurbished one. I don't need pretty matching burgundy washer and drier to keep up with the paid for internet home designer influencers.

This sector seems to be a bit of a mess now and I do think the feds should have put stings attached to how they should reduce energy and not allowing the manufacturers to take short cuts of just making them smaller.

I also have a Miele vacuum cleaner for several years and that thing was worth the money and not too expensive. But the other Miele kitchen appliances are too expensive. When I was looking for a new vacuum I went to Consumer Reports to read up on them and not one Miele was even mentioned. Huge fail and was able to find out from others online how great these were. Now you will see CR reviewing them but CR has been in the pocket of these appliance companies more than we realized. They will give a product a great review and then when you go out and check other reviews you find out the product is awful. So have given up on them for guidance on anything anymore.

I think I may have to rethink buying a stainless steel sink and go back to the drawing board on all this. Right now cheap Chinese versions are not worth the time, money and the exasperation.

 

[Nealtw]

Is it sold as an under mount sink only? that would be the only reason I could think of.

 

[CodeMatters]

For condensation you will have to have a very humid environment, as well as a very hot contents of the sink for long periods of time.
ED

Hot? post must be 5 characters minimum...............

 

[Trillium4]

No these sinks show pictures of it used as a drop in and some have marketed them as both a drop in and undermount.

 

[Trillium4]

Well I also wonder if you need to factor in how thin these sinks are now and how much more easily they will condensate? There are issues with how thin the sides are and weight too.

 

[Nealtw]

Hmmm, 22" maybe a problem with the depth of a factory formed counter top. front to back.

 

[Trillium4]

Well my new cabinets will be 26" deep. My counter top will be I think at least 1 inch over hang too. The cabinet boxes are 3/4" plywood thick so accounting for that as well. The cabinet will be 36" wide with 34.50 tall not including the counter.

 

[Spyder]

I'm not sure what the "proper" way to deal with this is. Im just a DIY guy.

I just installed a laminate counter in my laundry room with a top mount sink. I cut the hole, smeared kitchen and bath caulk around the cut, then put a bead on around the edge by the sink, and installed the sink with the clips. seems to be fine for now. Hopefully it stays. I bought an Elkey sink.

As far as chinese made vs US, I don't really have a significant comment. but buying a no name sink for cheap, is likely not getting you a high quality product.
I've heard good things about MRDirect for sinks. I think they're owned by a major brand now. I was going to go with them,but at the size I needed for my application, they were out of stock for the sink I wanted for like a month, so I didn't order that.

For my kitchen, I went with an undermount Franke Orca. Its great, but cost a lot, too much.

 

[Trillium4]

Just got off the phone with Formica and Wilsonart wondering what they think of stone associations working with these cheaper chinese sinks manufacturers since they seem to promote each other. Wondered if Formica and Wilsonart have picked up on this partnering and are they partnering with better sinks for their laminate counter tops. The answer is a resounding no they are not. I was talking to their technical departments.

One reviewer had bought one of these sinks and she put it on her laminate counter top and it failed and when she talked to the manufacturer she found out these chinese drop in zero radius sinks are not meant for laminate counters even though their ads show laminate counter tops. She was irate at how they fail to let folks know this and mislead. I agree. Both guys at Formica and Wilsonart don't read reviews and they have no idea about this. Probably since consumers rant at the sink company not them. The Formica guy was a bit better and had mentioned to butter the laminate and particle board edge before putting the sink in after fitting it. They say use silicone. I guess the putty they use to use dries up and cracks is why I have read elsewhere.

I think if I was a VP at Formica or Wilsonart I would be wondering how I could partner up with sink companies to make sure they don't market my laminate product obsolete with these cheaper chinese sinks everyone is selling. I would be reading reviews and finding out why these counters were failing with these sinks and figuring a work around too. But I bet they are hoping to sell their more expensive corian or quartz offerings instead. When the next recession hits they may reconsider.

These zero radius sinks are a pain to clean from what reviewers have indicated but I don't see any variations of radius with these Chinese sinks. I also think that these sink manufacturers are wanting to sell a higher end farmhouse like sink too. Their emphasis is on higher end not the meat and potatoes priced stuff most folks are wanting. They literally are pushing consumers to comply with their sales goals.

I think I can post a link now and will try to show which brands are more Chinese heavy and this is for faucets but I would imagine they are outsourcing more than just the faucets:

http://starcraftcustombuilders.com/sources.faucets1g.htm

I checked out MRDirect and they don't offer the size I am looking for but the prices are very economical for sure. I wonder if they are made in China too.

Franke is mentioned on that site above 1/4 way down the page and is considered a Specifier where they just don't assemble the parts but have strong internal quality control and a better reputation.

 

[lenaitch]

Just got off the phone with Formica and Wilsonart wondering what they think of stone associations working with these cheaper chinese sinks manufacturers since they seem to promote each other. Wondered if Formica and Wilsonart have picked up on this partnering and are they partnering with better sinks for their laminate counter tops. The answer is a resounding no they are not. I was talking to their technical departments.

One reviewer had bought one of these sinks and she put it on her laminate counter top and it failed and when she talked to the manufacturer she found out these chinese drop in zero radius sinks are not meant for laminate counters even though their ads show laminate counter tops. She was irate at how they fail to let folks know this and mislead. I agree. Both guys at Formica and Wilsonart don't read reviews and they have no idea about this. Probably since consumers rant at the sink company not them. The Formica guy was a bit better and had mentioned to butter the laminate and particle board edge before putting the sink in after fitting it. They say use silicone. I guess the putty they use to use dries up and cracks is why I have read elsewhere.

I think if I was a VP at Formica or Wilsonart I would be wondering how I could partner up with sink companies to make sure they don't market my laminate product obsolete with these cheaper chinese sinks everyone is selling. I would be reading reviews and finding out why these counters were failing with these sinks and figuring a work around too. But I bet they are hoping to sell their more expensive corian or quartz offerings instead. When the next recession hits they may reconsider.

These zero radius sinks are a pain to clean from what reviewers have indicated but I don't see any variations of radius with these Chinese sinks. I also think that these sink manufacturers are wanting to sell a higher end farmhouse like sink too. Their emphasis is on higher end not the meat and potatoes priced stuff most folks are wanting. They literally are pushing consumers to comply with their sales goals.

I think I can post a link now and will try to show which brands are more Chinese heavy and this is for faucets but I would imagine they are outsourcing more than just the faucets:

http://starcraftcustombuilders.com/sources.faucets1g.htm

I checked out MRDirect and they don't offer the size I am looking for but the prices are very economical for sure. I wonder if they are made in China too.

Franke is mentioned on that site above 1/4 way down the page and is considered a Specifier where they just don't assemble the parts but have strong internal quality control and a better reputation.

The way I read that link it is talking about faucets.
I don't know where they source all of their product line but there is a Franke factory just down the road from me. I did a quick look of their (Canadian) website. I didn't readily see a s/s one-holer with your exact dimensions but there were some that are close and I didn't scan all of the pages.

I'm with you on laminate vs. stone. It's pretty impressive what they are able to do with laminate nowdays. The only other material I would consider is quartz but I think I need a rich relative to pass.

 

[huesmann]

If I needed to "quiet down" a sink I would just stick some butyl rubber (peel-n-seal) around the exterior surfaces.