[mbrando1994]

Hi all,

I am about to upgrade my homes service panel from 100 amps to 200 amps. The current panel is very overcrowded and I need more slots for breakers to start running new lines for heavier duty electronics that weren't around back then.

I know the approximate cost will be $1500-$3000. Why such a large gap? What would constitute 1500 over 3000 etc? Is it strictly regional?

Is there anything I can do in preparation to save on labor costs? I know permits are required and I would certainly not bother the technician while he's on site, I mostly mean before he/she arrives. The box isn't earthed with a stake and the entry wiring will need to be replaced and a new mast installed plus a meter.

I don't have that much in reserves but I see this as an urgent upgrade as many of the homes around me in town are burning up due to old panels and what not, I want to be safe. What should I expect and what can I do to make it less financially damaging right now?

 

[Know A Little]

1. Where is the existing panel located? Have a clean area to work in, with open access to the area.
2. Identify the existing circuit breakers or fuses.
3. Get recommendations regarding the contractor you are going to use.
4. Ask what brand of panel they plan on installing. Myself I like Square D

 

[carpdad]

I'm in NJ, new rules and high labor. When the hvac contractor installed the new heat/AC, he got his friend to do the same upgrade. Electrician not very happy about his charge - passed inspection and a good work, based on what I learned since then. He reconnected the existing circuit and I did the house wiring onwards. Square D 200 amp service. It could depend on the panel make and the breakers needed. I hear arc fault breakers are very, very expensive. My cost, depending on various electrician charges, could've been 3-4 times higher. Lower cost could mean hurried work or nights after his real job, and that could mean mistakes. I would get some more estimates and take the middle road.
There is one company around here that's been around many yrs and apparently doing well. I've been seeing their trucks all over the county. But their call charge is $160, no work and 30 minutes.

 

[AllanJ]

You upgrade the panel because you need or want more amperes. Not because the old box is too old or perceived to be a fire hazard or is too crowded. A well maintained and not deteriorated (corroded connections and bus bar fins, cracked components, flaking insulation) old box is not a hazard.

I'll take your word that you need more amperes. From 100 to 200 amps usually means a new service entrance and weatherhead. Do your various estimates at widely varying prices each specify what (ground rods, meter base) is included in the scope of work?

 

[KarenStein]

Talk to your electrician(s)! Any contractor should be able to explain exactly what their work involves, what they plan to do.

You can 'help' by clearing the shrubbery, providing good access, and being clear as to what you really want. The electrician might also let you save some money by having you do any digging, drive the ground rod, etc.

Some guys do a "service change" by simply replacing the "box." Others will replace the mast, drive new ground rods, provide for temporary power, and do other "nice" things (like remove the trash). Quotes may - or may not - include permit costs.

Finally, there's the costs of doing business. Not every contractor has the licenses, bond, and insurances another might be required to have. That service truck and the snazzy uniform costs money. Guess who pays for them?

Do you need more power? Or, just more circuits? Changing from 100 to 200 amps is a pretty big change; the power company will want you to discuss your plans with them (after all, they need to supply the power!).

A good start is to do a 'load calculation' for your house. "Code Check Electrical" has a very good worksheet for this. This will tell you how large of a service you really need.

Additional circuits can be provided in several ways. You can keep the same "service size," but just use a panel with more spaces. You can have the service panel supply power to various other panels in the house.

 

[Oso954]

I need more slots for breakers to start running new lines for heavier duty electronics that weren't around back then.

As someone that remembers vacuum tube electronics, I had to laugh a little.

 

[Speedy Petey]

As someone that remembers vacuum tube electronics, I had to laugh a little.

Right? Things are getting more efficient, not less.

 

[jbfan]

As someone that remembers vacuum tube electronics, I had to laugh a little.

It's not like we have the big reel to reel, receiver, and 4' high speakers like we have in the past!

Right? Things are getting more efficient, not less.

Maybe he means more electronics than in the past.

 

[mbrando1994]

Talk to your electrician(s)! Any contractor should be able to explain exactly what their work involves, what they plan to do.

You can 'help' by clearing the shrubbery, providing good access, and being clear as to what you really want. The electrician might also let you save some money by having you do any digging, drive the ground rod, etc.

Some guys do a "service change" by simply replacing the "box." Others will replace the mast, drive new ground rods, provide for temporary power, and do other "nice" things (like remove the trash). Quotes may - or may not - include permit costs.

Finally, there's the costs of doing business. Not every contractor has the licenses, bond, and insurances another might be required to have. That service truck and the snazzy uniform costs money. Guess who pays for them?

Do you need more power? Or, just more circuits? Changing from 100 to 200 amps is a pretty big change; the power company will want you to discuss your plans with them (after all, they need to supply the power!).

A good start is to do a 'load calculation' for your house. "Code Check Electrical" has a very good worksheet for this. This will tell you how large of a service you really need.

Additional circuits can be provided in several ways. You can keep the same "service size," but just use a panel with more spaces. You can have the service panel supply power to various other panels in the house.

I really need more spaces as well as more amperes. I plan to eventually run an air compressor for the garage and I have a multitude of power tools as well. I have two heavy duty computers a few TV's stove dryer, eventually a water heater and electric heat, right now an oil burner. 200 amp maybe isn't necessary right now, but it will be as I would start adding more circuits. I don't want to upgrade the panel to only upgrade it again later, but I do get what you're saying here

 

[mbrando1994]

It's not like we have the big reel to reel, receiver, and 4' high speakers like we have in the past!



Maybe he means more electronics than in the past.

Yes, I mean back when knob and tube was popular, homes usually didn't have multiple TV's computers stereos etc, even if those pieces are more efficient, most homes around me didn't have much of anything like them when those electronics first came out, I live in a low wealth area

 

[Speedy Petey]

Yes, I mean back when knob and tube was popular, homes usually didn't have multiple TV's computers stereos etc, even if those pieces are more efficient, most homes around me didn't have much of anything like them when those electronics first came out, I live in a low wealth area

Our point was even though you are absolutely correct, the actual demand load of even all these new gadgets we have is not all that significant.

For some reason people tend to think electronics are some big draw. They are not. Anything that lights (incandescent), moves, or especially heats with electricity is a load to consider.

 

[mbrando1994]

Our point was even though you are absolutely correct, the actual demand load of even all these new gadgets we have is not all that significant.

For some reason people tend to think electronics are some big draw. They are not. Anything that lights (incandescent), moves, or especially heats with electricity is a load to consider.

I understand that I really do. Though I have a lot of equipment. Like I said two beefed up computers (by no means average), about six monitors, three flatscreen TV's, I do plan to run a 240v compressor as well as eventually upgrade to electric heat. Possible a dishwasher garbage disposal, etc.. All of this combined I would think would use up to or more than 100 amps, if it doesn't that would be awesome but I want to have more than what I currently need now is all. The attic, basement, and some other rooms have new romex, but some still have the old two wire romex without the ground. I'm assuming AFCI breakers will need to be used for those since it branches to the bathroom and kitchen?

 

[Know A Little]

You upgrade the panel because you need or want more amperes. Not because the old box is too old or perceived to be a fire hazard or is too crowded. A well maintained and not deteriorated (corroded connections and bus bar fins, cracked components, flaking insulation) old box is not a hazard.
?

I disagree, as someone that does electrical testing for a living I can tell you, Insulation breaks down, circuit breakers that are not excercised regularly (as recommended by NEMA) can be problematicm, metal fatigue, old petroleum based lubricants dry out.

All equipment has an expected life time and I would recommend any distribution equipment 35 years or older be tested and or replaced.

 

[joed]

circuit breakers that are not excercised regularly (as recommended by NEMA)can be problematicm

I'd like to see that documented somewhere. do you have a link?

 

[Know A Little]

I'd like to see that documented somewhere. do you have a link?

Based on the NEMA Standard I was WRONG.

This standard does not apply to residential Circuit Breakers, but does reference elsewhere in the standard plug in type circuit breakers.

NEMA Standards Publication AB 4-2009

Here is the rub


GUIDELINES FOR INSPECTION AND PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE OF MOLDED CASE CIRCUIT BREAKERS USED IN COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL APPLICATIONS

WARNING​

—Follow all safety procedures described in Clause 2.​

NOTE—If the circuit breaker is equipped with an under-voltage trip release, energize the trip release to allow proper operation of the​

circuit breaker (See 7.3 for proper procedure).​

6.2.2.1​

After the circuit breaker is properly isolated, operate it ON and OFF 2 or 3 times. The breaker handle should operate smoothly without binding.​