[Nozler]

I tried searching for the answers but came up empty.

Assume 2008 version of NEC (if you know the 2005 was different please note that).

Question 1: (Circuit Breaker Labels)
In a newly built home, is the electrician required to label all breakers in the load center?

Question 2: (Junction Boxes)
Can the inside of a light fixture count as a junction box? For example, the visually appealing 8| hollywood lights in a bathroom have a huge internal space for wiring. Can an electrician skip the junction box in the wall and just run the romex into the light fixture as long as the splices are done inside the light fixture and not the wall?


PS: God bless electricians. I work with state and federal regulations all day and the regulations look like Dr. Seuss compared to the NEC.

 

[Scuba_Dave]

I'm not aware of any code which requires breakers to be labelled
That is usually a contract/purchase issue

A light fixture may be used as a junction box IF it is rated to be used as one

 

[dSilanskas]

Question 1. Yes the panel must be labled

Question 2. If the light says it can be used as a JB than yes you can.

 

[Scuba_Dave]

Question 1. Yes the panel must be labled

Do you know the specific code requiring that?

 

[InPhase277]

In the 2005 NEC, the Code article is 408.4 for labeling. As far as using the interior of a light for wiring space.... Well, I have done it. I have drilled a hole to accept a connector and popped an MC whip into a strip vanity light. I don't imagine the thing is listed for it, but I personally don't see a problem as long as a connector is used and the light has a back plate.

 

[Scuba_Dave]

Thanks!!

I just looked and its the same under 2008
Another thing my electrician did not do when my panel was replaced

I use an Excel Spreadsheet which is then attached to the wall beside the breaker panel. Once the house/addition are complete I'll fill in the panel door

 

[wirenut1110]

Just to add, 408.4 in the 08 code added some wording to include labeling "spares" and "no circuit shall be described in a manner that depends on transient conditions of occupancy"

I take this to mean something like "Recept Jim's room" or "new ceiling lights"

 

[ScottR]

I take this to mean something like "Recept Jim's room" or "new ceiling lights"

:thumbup: I like that rule. In the house I bought, the "Guest Bedroom" is now the den, and the "Office" is now the guest bedroom. Until I re-labeled the panel, that was confusing. They also called the "Living Room" the den.

 

[Scuba_Dave]

Yeah, my last house had 3 bedrooms & they were labeled by the kids name
I label by "Front corner room" & indicate 1st or 2nd floor
Back corner room, Middle back room, Kitchen - pretty easy
Main front room, Sunroom, Dining room

That's why I like my spreadsheet, I can be very descriptive
It also includes guage of the wire & breaker size
Since I have an older house (50's) outlets are mixed up in different rooms
I also label new wire or old cloth wire runs
Circuits that are "full" or dedicated runs are in yellow - Do Not Add

It's helped a lot in keeping track of runs/circuits

 

[joed]

You should see the labels in some of the panels at work. Only people who have worked there for 20 years can interpret them. Joe Smiths office on label indicates a guy who left the company 15 years ago.

 

[Yoyizit]

A record of what outlet is upstream of what outlet would come in handy but it's best done before the drywall is up.
You can figure it out with a 10A load and DVM but it is tedious.

 

[Plumbvoltage]

A record of what outlet is upstream of what outlet would come in handy but it's best done before the drywall is up.
You can figure it out with a 10A load and DVM but it is tedious.

I had taken pics of all the electrical and plumbing for our house while being built so I would know where everything was. Only problem was my hard drive crashed that the pics were on, all gone. Shame on me for not putting them on another form of backup.

 

[InPhase277]

Shame on me for not putting them on another form of backup.

No, shame on you for not wiring in a manner that would allow a logical deduction of where the circuits go, even with sheetrock up. I try to combine things similarly. So the dining room and breakfast nook are on the same circuit. The bathroom recepts get a circuit. The lights get their own circuits, etc.

 

[Plumbvoltage]

No, shame on you for not wiring in a manner that would allow a logical deduction of where the circuits go, even with sheetrock up. I try to combine things similarly. So the dining room and breakfast nook are on the same circuit. The bathroom recepts get a circuit. The lights get their own circuits, etc.

The electrician did a great job wiring it and you can tell where the circuits go.

It was just nice to know exactly which direction the wires went and which way the pipes went for possible future work.:jester:

 

[theatretch85]

I use an Excel Spreadsheet which is then attached to the wall beside the breaker panel. Once the house/addition are complete I'll fill in the panel door

I believe to be code compliant your spreadsheet label must be on the inside of the panel door or on the face of the panel cover, not on the wall next to it. This may be a jurisdictional thing, as my inspector said that I couldn't have it on the wall next to the panel (even though it was close enough that the paper and the tape was actually touching the panel). I like the spreadsheet idea myself, I only indicate the ampacity of the circuit and the function, all the breakers match the wire size of the entire circuit (at least as far as I know).

 

[frenchelectrican]

Also what I do is mark the circuit number inside the junction box as well in case someone fuber'ed the cover all I do is go back and look at the junciton box where I scribble in the circuit number.

It came handy more than once in couple resdentail home I work on many years ago and common in commercal location { it pretty much mantory anyway }

Merci,Marc

 

[Stubbie]

Your going to find that most panels that have been installed for a few years are so screwed up as for the labeling that your only choice is to make a new index. I used to open an excel spread sheet and build a new index for the customer then have it laminated. Typical manufacturer labels can in no way allow you to itemize what is on a branch circuit in most homes that have been messed with.....:wink:

 

[Scuba_Dave]

I believe to be code compliant your spreadsheet label must be on the inside of the panel door or on the face of the panel cover, not on the wall next to it. This may be a jurisdictional thing, as my inspector said that I couldn't have it on the wall next to the panel (even though it was close enough that the paper and the tape was actually touching the panel). I like the spreadsheet idea myself, I only indicate the ampacity of the circuit and the function, all the breakers match the wire size of the entire circuit (at least as far as I know).

Inspector has been here 2x, he liked the spreadsheet idea
Maybe some would find fault with it

Yeah, the panel at my last house was a mess

 

[theatretch85]

Inspector has been here 2x, he liked the spreadsheet idea
Maybe some would find fault with it

Yeah, the panel at my last house was a mess

I didn't say there was anything wrong with the spreadsheet idea, just with the placement of it. If your inspector hasn't said anything about it needing to be on the panel cover then i'd say your ok. I just know my inspector had a problem with it being on the wall next to the panel verses on the panel door (seems like a stupid thing to worry about, but whatever).

The spreadsheet certaintly allows for a much cleaner label and so long as you save the file someplace safe you can edit it when you alter or add additonal circuits. After a panel has been in use for a number of years, the original factory label tends to crumble and flake off or the pencil markings tend to fade and become un-readable.

 

[Leah Frances]

I had to open my Grandmama's breaker box to kill the power to replace a broken switch. My first shock (not literally :wink was that it is on the OUTSIDE of her house. My second (no shock, I suppose) was, that of the six circuits only two were labelled, from the original install. It took my mother, two cell phones, and five breaker throws to find the circuit I needed.

BTW, I label every JBOX with the corresponding breaker number, I also label every rec and switch, the same. And, because, well, you can never have too many labels, I also label cables where they exit and enter JBOXs, walls, etc.