DIY Home Improvement Forum banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We started a new residential construction several months back. After a multitude of issues with the house our contractor basically quit and refused to finish the house. The contractor has taken much of their fee in the first two draw requests, so we don't have the funds necessary to hire a contractor to finish the job, so I was going to subcontract the rest of the work myself. Prior to doing anything, I decided to get a structural engineer onsite to make sure the house was structurally sound. During the inspection, the engineer pointed out that the two mock chimneys that are cantilevered through our roof and covered in brick are too heavy for the existing framing in the roof. To alleviate the issue, he told us that we would need to triple the rafters under the chimneys. I decided to try and do this myself, and I was able to get the first rafter cut to size with a birdsmouth at the wall plate. However, it ocurred to me while getting it into place that there are sheathing and roofing nails protruding into the house from the exterior, so I had a couple of questions.

1. When I secure the second rafter to the existing rafter, this will most certainly push the roofing nails back up through the roof, which I expect to cause possibly multiple leaks. How should one handle these nails?

2. Does the new rafter need to be completely flush with the existing rafter?

3. It seems like it would be easier to turn three 2x10s vertical between two load bearing walls and run vertical beams up to the rafters under the chimneys. Is this feasible?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37,477 Posts
You can cut the nails off from below the sheathing.
Going to needs some pictures of what your trying to explain.
 

·
AHH, SPANS!!!
Joined
·
1,751 Posts
I recommend a grinder with a metal cut off disc( they make discs for concrete, be sure and get one to cut/grind metal).the grinder should cut the nail at the underside of the sheathing flush, a sawz all will work the nail loose from the oscillating action of the saw so not recommended.
 

·
AHH, SPANS!!!
Joined
·
1,751 Posts
those are great kwikfishron, I've used them daily for years and years but they may not cut a solid roofing nail easily or an 8d that missed the rafter when the sheathing was nailed off. a cut as hard as possible and bend back and forth until the nail snaps is how I deal with larger nails and the end snips, a roofing nail will likely move around and loosen in the plywood before it snapped off...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
How come these brick chimneys were supportd off rafters in the first place? Did the architect detail it this way and is this on the plans?
When we were trying to decide what we we were going to build, we knew for certain that we wanted these tall chimneys with two tall clay pots or flu liners on top. We consulted an architect, but it was going to be more than we could afford to have it drawn up, so we found a stock Frank Betz House plan that had a similar footprint to the house we wanted, but it didn't have the chimneys. Although we offered to contact the designers at Frank Betz to have the plans redrawn, our former contractor insisted that they could get it done without redrawing the plans.

They were supposed to "beef up" the framing in the roof system to carry the load and additionally they were going to use thin brick since the chimneys were fake anyway. Well they failed to "beef up" the fraiming and neglected to use thin brick, then after several other issues they cut and ran, so I guess it's time for me to pay the piper, so to speak.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,464 Posts
those are great kwikfishron, I've used them daily for years and years but they may not cut a solid roofing nail easily or an 8d that missed the rafter when the sheathing was nailed off. a cut as hard as possible and bend back and forth until the nail snaps is how I deal with larger nails and the end snips, a roofing nail will likely move around and loosen in the plywood before it snapped off...
I'd imagine the size of the snips would make all of the difference. My 14" clippers have no problems with roofing and sheathing nails.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hand drive

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I've attached a copies of the roofing diagram and framing plan along with illustrations of where the chimneys are located and what I would prefer to do opposed to trying to get these 20ft 2X10s in place.

If anyone has any feedback on handling this issue with vertical support beams instead of tripling up the rafters, I would appreciate it.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,471 Posts
Wow, that's some house. As for your ex-contractor, him saying he would do things that weren't on the plans would've been a big red flag for me. Especially something as structural as what he said he could do. Though just DIYers, my wife and I built our current home almost entirely by ourselves. She was the GC and I was all the subcontractors (that's her version anyway). It's a log home, so there was a lot of flexibility in room layout since there's only one interior load-bearing wall in the entire house. Every major change we decided to make had to go through the permit department to be reviewed and approved. Perhaps the biggest was replacing a conventional staircase with a metal circular one my wife saw and just had to have. I had to beef up some floor joists to handle the point load from the center post of the thing.

I gather you have a construction loan for this project. I also gather from your questions that you are not a licensed contractor. What does the lender think of your plan to GC the completion yourself? Where's the money going to come from? I doubt you'll get any more from them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,493 Posts
iomh,
if you hired a structural engineer to come in and come up with a solution to your problem, I would advise you do exactly what he says. If not, why bother paying him in the first place? Clip or grind the nails off like mentioned above, very simple to do. Shouldn't be hard to duplicate a rafter that's already there and set them in place and nail together. Actually sounds like a fairly easy and quick solution to something that has the potential to be a real nightmare. Don't try to second guess the engineer. I'm sure he's not guessing.
Mike Hawkins:)
 

·
Architectural Sculptor
Joined
·
766 Posts
. During the inspection, the engineer pointed out that the two mock chimneys that are cantilevered through our roof and covered in brick are too heavy for the existing framing in the roof.
I never heard of a brick chimney being supported by the roof... every brick or masonry chimney I ever saw want all the way to the ground supported on a slab.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,471 Posts
I never heard of a brick chimney being supported by the roof... every brick or masonry chimney I ever saw want all the way to the ground supported on a slab.
For real chimneys, of course. But according to the OP's beginning post, these are decorative, fake (or, as he called them, mock) chimneys.
 

·
Mold!! Let's kill it!
Joined
·
2,849 Posts
There are thousands of old 2 story houses in central PA that have chimneys that run only from the attic floor through the roof. They are real chimneys with metal stove pipe running into them from the first floor. Old timers doubled up the floor joists under them, but many still sagged over time.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,464 Posts
For real chimneys, of course. But according to the OP's beginning post, these are decorative, fake (or, as he called them, mock) chimneys.
Yes, but you wouldn't expect a "mock" chimney to be constructed with full size bricks.

There are many light weight options options out there. There's even brick vinyl siding that looks pretty darn good, and this coming from a guy who rarely has anything good to say about vinyl.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
11,730 Posts
I'd rather see the double rafter dropped an inch or enough to clear the protruding nails. They are minimum code required length now to hold the shingles on, why leave an out for the insurance company to deny any future claim.

"R905.2.5 Fasteners. Fasteners for asphalt shingles shall be galvanized steel, stainless steel, aluminum or copper roofing nails, minimum 12 gage [0.105 inch (3 mm)] shank with a minimum 3/8-inch (10 mm) diameter head, ASTM F 1667, of a length to penetrate through the roofing materials and a minimum of 3/4 inch (19 mm) into the roof sheathing. Where the roof sheathing is less than 3/4 inch (19 mm) thick, the fasteners shall penetrate through the sheathing. Fasteners shall comply with ASTM F 1667." From: http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_9_sec005.htm

Gary
 

·
AHH, SPANS!!!
Joined
·
1,751 Posts
I'd rather see the double rafter dropped an inch or enough to clear the protruding nails. They are minimum code required length now to hold the shingles on, why leave an out for the insurance company to deny any future claim.

"R905.2.5 Fasteners. Fasteners for asphalt shingles shall be galvanized steel, stainless steel, aluminum or copper roofing nails, minimum 12 gage [0.105 inch (3 mm)] shank with a minimum 3/8-inch (10 mm) diameter head, ASTM F 1667, of a length to penetrate through the roofing materials and a minimum of 3/4 inch (19 mm) into the roof sheathing. Where the roof sheathing is less than 3/4 inch (19 mm) thick, the fasteners shall penetrate through the sheathing. Fasteners shall comply with ASTM F 1667." From: http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_9_sec005.htm

Gary
the weight of the chimneys are on the roof sheathing sitting on the rafter, the sheathing will sag still if the rafter does not meet up tight to it would it not or would strengthening the one rafter with the double even if they are dropped down one inch allow the one rafter to do all the weight bearing work ? maybe even shims added later in between protruding nails...
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top