[SRG]

I have a 3 ton R22 Trane A/C system that is approximately 10 years old with a slow leak in the evaporator coil. The A/C service company came out last week and gave me a quote of $780 to replace the evap coil or $3000 to install a new Lennox R410 system. The rep from the company told me the new system is about 35% more efficient than the old. He mentioned that due to its age, if the evaporator coil is replaced and the existing compressor fails, a new system would have to be installed because R22 is being phased out next year. I really don't want to spend $3K for a new system if I can get several more years service out of the existing system for $780, although I would like see an estimate of energy savings due to the higher efficiency of the new system.

My questions to the forum here:

1) Even if R22 systems are being phased out next year in favor of R410, shouldn't R22 replacement compressors still be available for a number of years beyond 2010?

2) Does anyone sell rebuilt compressors?

3) Is there a way (online calculator) to estimate the savings due to a switch to a higher efficiency system?

 

[yuri]

If you spend $780 plus taxes say $900 on a coil and the compressor fails then you are looking at another $1500 or more for it. You have almost bought a new system. R22 compressors will be available but the R22 will probably triple in cost. Your unit is a 10 SEER or lower. You will probably get lucky and the compressor will last 2 yrs unless you live in Florida or somewhere REAL hot where the unit runs a lot longer and will wear out sooner. No rebuilt compressors are available as they are a hermetic, sealed design.

 

[Plumber101]

I am with yuri. If you replace the coil you still have a 10 yr old compressor and if you are like me 2 more years for the compressor is a dream.

I would tell ya to get a couple more estimates 3k for just A/C seems a little high..but may be common to your area.

If you go with a new a/c you might get an estimate for furnace as well

780 for a new coil seems pretty right on the $$$$

 

[toms]

Same problem, different part...beware,,

I had a leak in A coil, Trane R22, 10 yrs old..replaced it in Jan 09. with 13 SEER. now, turned on AC and it is weak. I had it looked at, they say it now has a leak in the compressor unit.....If I upgrade to new compressor, the A coil, 750,00..brand new,,,must be replaced as they will not be compatible,,,wasted money..So, I am looking for a COMP7029, R-22 compressor to last a few yrs.
I agree, somewhere ther eare some sitting around as both do not usually fail this fast. And, why are there no rebuilt compressors available.
This greening stuff is starting to look like a scam.
Anyone have a compressor, 2.5 or 3 ton. Orig model is TTB030C100A0.
Any ideas? Does anyone wish to sell an existing old one if theyb upgrade after A coil failure? [email protected]

 

[joesbarngrill60]

this is why i hate this bizness. scam artists only want to sell because that's how they make money.
780.00 is exhorbitant for a evap coil even including install charge and trip and every other charge they want you to bend over for.
r-22 is going up. just like r-12 did awhile back.
all about the dollar.:furious:

 

[toms]

R-22 compressor

There has got to be a R-22 Acoil, anda compressor out there. It seems reasonable taht usually only one fail, there are upgrades to newer systems and inventory not sold exists.
What is needed is a place to match failed coil users with failed compressor users and start getting something back for a part no longer usable by itself. Heck, if I pay someone 3-400.00 for a R-22 compressor to go with my newer A coil, thaty nis money that person can use for their needs...This is just wrong, gouging people for a "greener" world...BS.
Well, need to keep looking for a compressor..see ya,,,

 

[joesbarngrill60]

If I'm understanding you, you have a leak in the evap coil but you also want to replace the compressor? Please, don't let the salesman push you into something you don't need. if the compressor fails, it fails but there is no reason to think that it will just because he says it will. anytime soon, that is. it will fail eventually but in the meantime, you might want to go ahead and get the evap coil replaced. did he show you where the leak was? don't take his word for it, they're out to sell not satisfy. be a pro-active consumer. I'm not saying they're all sharks, not by any means but that's how they make their living, selling!

 

[hvaclover]

this is why i hate this bizness. scam artists only want to sell because that's how they make money.
780.00 is exhorbitant for a evap coil even including install charge and trip and every other charge they want you to bend over for.
r-22 is going up. just like r-12 did awhile back.
all about the dollar.:furious:

How do you know that's too much for the area he is in?

Did you take into consideration that prices vary by region? In Mi $700 is a going rate for an evap.

Your comments are a reflection on the rest of this biz and I don't think they are are not an accurate description of the rest of the industry.

I am wondering if you are even qualified to make those comment as your
your profile is woefully devoid of any info that would indicate you are a competent hvac tech or business owner.

If you do own a business you must not make much with the attitude towards pricing.

I am betting you are just flaming.

 

[beenthere]

this is why i hate this bizness. scam artists only want to sell because that's how they make money.
780.00 is exhorbitant for a evap coil even including install charge and trip and every other charge they want you to bend over for.
r-22 is going up. just like r-12 did awhile back.
all about the dollar.:furious:

Wow.

So for a new coil, which includes.

Evap coil
New LLFD
Nitrogen purge
Nitrogen leak check
Additional R22 to bring charge up to proper level
Mastic to reseal case coil to furnace and plenum
Reattach or pipe drain lines
3 hours min labor(you are pulling a proper vacuum and checking with a micron gauge right ? )

Your how much less then 700 bucks???

How much are you paying your guys ( I hope more then just 16 bucks an hour ).
Do they have paid vacations?
Do you provide health insurance, or atleast offset the cost.
You do have workmans comp on them right???


PS: Don't forget, some of those coils alone cost more then 45% of the install price the OP was quoted.

 

[Yoyizit]

gave me a quote of $780 to replace the evap coil or $3000 to install a new Lennox R410 system. The rep from the company told me the new system is about 35% more efficient than the old.

780/3000 = 0.26. If there is a 26% (~1 chance in 4) or more likelihood that the $780 repair will serve you as well as the new $3K system, you should get the repair.

Old system cost you $C/yr. Other things being equal the new system will cost you $C/1.35 = $0.74C/yr.
How many years does it take for 1C-0.74C = $0.26C/yr to equal $3000? If it's more than 10 I'd disregard this as a selling point.

Higher efficiency = more complexity = probably lower reliability.

 

[beenthere]

A 14 SEER isn't anymore complex then his old XE1000.

 

[hvaclover]

780/3000 = 0.26. If there is a 26% (~1 chance in 4) or more likelihood that the $780 repair will serve you as well as the new $3K system, you should get the repair.

Old system cost you $C/yr. Other things being equal the new system will cost you $C/1.35 = $0.74C/yr.
How many years does it take for 1C-0.74C = $0.26C/yr to equal $3000? If it's more than 10 I'd disregard this as a selling point.

Higher efficiency = more complexity = probably lower reliability.

So wrong.

If anything the higher efficiencies are more reliable because they have more equipment protective devices built in.

 

[toms]

You guys...

are fun to follow...The fact is I come down on the side of the argument that says once labor, quality, and trust are paid for, the sum is worth more than the part's value. That is simply honesty and hard work being traded for money. That being said, I just am really short on cash, single parent and the a mortgage.
The story is the A coil dies last July, and I had it replaced (3 ton, R-22, TTB030C100A0) for 750.00.
Now, turmned on A/C, and it has a leak in the outside compressor. I had it filled, yet leak exists. I will try to use the "fix-leak stuff" yet it is 50.00 a can.
So, I am looking at repolacing the compressor,maybe with COMP7029, R-22, and keeping A coil. Or I may need to replace with upgraded stuff, which means removing a brand new, perfectly good A coil.....arrghh!!!
I am still thinking that when these "older" ones fail. there should be the other part (A coil/compressor) that is still useful for a few years. Sort of like a car taht was wrecked may still have good parts to be sold. Anyone aware of any place to get these used parts?

 

[hvaclover]

are fun to follow...The fact is I come down on the side of the argument that says once labor, quality, and trust are paid for, the sum is worth more than the part's value. That is simply honesty and hard work being traded for money. That being said, I just am really short on cash, single parent and the a mortgage.
The story is the A coil dies last July, and I had it replaced (3 ton, R-22, TTB030C100A0) for 750.00.
Now, turmned on A/C, and it has a leak in the outside compressor. I had it filled, yet leak exists. I will try to use the "fix-leak stuff" yet it is 50.00 a can.
So, I am looking at repolacing the compressor,maybe with COMP7029, R-22, and keeping A coil. Or I may need to replace with upgraded stuff, which means removing a brand new, perfectly good A coil.....arrghh!!!
I am still thinking that when these "older" ones fail. there should be the other part (A coil/compressor) that is still useful for a few years. Sort of like a car taht was wrecked may still have good parts to be sold. Anyone aware of any place to get these used parts?

No offense but you are hi-jacking the OP's thread.

Please start a new one. BTW stop leak is not recommended.

 

[Yoyizit]

[/B][/I][/U]

So wrong.

If anything the higher efficiencies are more reliable because they have more equipment protective devices built in.

That was covered under the "other things being equal." Designing for reliability gets pretty tricky; that's why there is MIL-STD-217.

"A 14 SEER isn't anymore complex then his old XE1000."
Then how do they get the higher efficiency?

More parts connected so you get redundancy may be more reliable; more parts wired in sequence is less reliable, other things being equal.

 

[hvaclover]

That was covered under the "other things being equal." Designing for reliability gets pretty tricky; that's why there is MIL-STD-217.

"A 14 SEER isn't anymore complex then his old XE1000."
Then how do they get the higher efficiency?

More parts connected so you get redundancy may be more reliable; more parts wired in sequence is less reliable, other things being equal.

You miss my point Yoyzy. Iam saying that the higher seer ratings models(and I assumed everyone knew that meant high end equip (well that statement is redundant. Everybody selling hvac already know 14 SEER and higher have all the protective devices I am refering to)).

In the infantcy of hvac all condensers came with fan cycling, low press control, high press control, crankcase heater, suction accumulator, discharge muffler, and external overcurrent and over heat protection.

They protected the equip against all the problems that could kill a compressor.

Costs caused these protective devices to be replaced by a heat only sensing thermostat buried in comp windings.

We see these devices make a return in the higher end equip.
They make the equipment more reliable. I won't argue why, if you know hvac it's self evident.

The bottom line is protect the compressor from all the hazards that kill a cmpressor and you have a longer lasting unit. That spells reliability to me.

 

[beenthere]

"A 14 SEER isn't anymore complex then his old XE1000."
Then how do they get the higher efficiency?

More parts connected so you get redundancy may be more reliable; more parts wired in sequence is less reliable, other things being equal.

Larger indoor and outdoor coils.
Rated the the condenser at a lower condensing temp. Where it draws lower amperage.
Lower HP condenser fan motors.

 

[Yoyizit]

Thanks for your answers. I've got more study to do, for sure.