[Kamy]

Hi,

I'm on a concrete slab and have an offset flange. The previous owner had the toilet cemented, grouted in place. Yes, it was a complete disgusting mess when I got it out.

Anyway, I'm going to be installing a Kohler skirted toilet so it does not need the flange bolts to hold the toilet in place, but will utilize lag bolts to hold it down.

The flange is in really rough shape as you can see from the images below. While trying to remove one of the flange bolts (it was cemented in also) I tapped it with a hammer to loosen it a bit so I could rotate it and lift it out, and a whole section of the flange fell away.

What are my options here? Will I still be able to get a wax ring to seal on this? Any advice at all is welcome. Also, as you can see, I am about to start tiling, I imagine I should hold off on tiling that area in case drastic measures are called for.

Thanks in advance!
Karl

 

[Yodaman]

IMO, I think you will be fine. I would buy 2 wax rings. One with the rubber throat and one without. Use some of wax from the one without to fill the chipped area. I normally strap on rubber gloves and smear and seat the wax ring thoroughly, in lieu of the just setting ring and pushing the toilet down over it.

The master plumbers will be along soon with some ideas.

 

[Kamy]

Update.

So the toilet I'm going to install is the Kohler Persuade "Curv", which does not use the flange bolts to hold it in place. I had originally looked at the standard Kohler Persuade toilet installation instructions. However the "Curv" model is slightly different in installation, likely because it is a chair height model. This model does use the flange bolts, not to hold the toilet in place, but to hold a "trapway" in place that you then position the toilet over. I've attached a pic from the manual to show what I am talking about.

I am going to have to somehow replace that other flange t-bolt. I imagine there is some way to repair this flange so I can replace that other bolt. I'm concerned about the height of the flange though. What would you think the maximum height the flange can be above the level of the tile?

I tried calling Kohler, they were not a lot of help, all they do is look through the instruction manual, and the manual does not mention the flange at all other than to say you need to replace the wax ring on the flange if you move the bowl.

 

[Bret86844]

When replacing my toilet, same thing happened. 1947 flange broke off. This is what I used: Toilet Flange Adapter

 

[Kamy]

When replacing my toilet, same thing happened. 1947 flange broke off. This is what I used: Toilet Flange Adapter

I don't think that will work for me, as this is an offset flange, buried in the concrete floor. Here's a better image showing the offset. I am seriously hoping I am not going to have to jackhammer this thing out

 

[jmon]

Best to wait for the master plumbers to respond, they may be able to give you some advice.

 

[Bret86844]

Oh ok. In any case, look around online or go to the hardware store. There are LOTS of options for toilet flanges. And below is a video showing the installation of a different type of flange. I found it helpful for me even though I ended up using a different type.

 

[Kamy]

Thanks Bret86844, helpful video. I can only hope this will be as easy as the flange replacement in the video! I'm going to wait until a a master plumber chimes in though, and will hold off on mortaring in my tile too (all cut and ready to go).

 

[paintdrying]

That flange looks like it is to high. Best to wait and dry fit the toilet to see if it rocks. I new this guy that cut a spacer out of lexan and set the edge of the toilet down on that.
They make these flat stainless steel rings that I bolt to the flange. Then the toilet bolts to that. I guess in your case you will not need to bolt the toilet to the flange.
As a landlord I silicone the bottom of the toilet when the flange is destroyed. Not as bad as it sounds. Would be nice to jack hammer this all up and put a nice plastic flange in there. Even with the tile

 

[Kamy]

That flange looks like it is to high.... Would be nice to jack hammer this all up and put a nice plastic flange in there.

It is a little high, less than a quarter inch on one side, about a full quarter inch, maybe 3/8", on the other. And yea, i'm afraid I may have to jackhammer this thing out. I haven't mortared the tile down yet, it's all cut and ready to go though.

 

[Ghostmaker]

I wouldn't worry about it. On average 50% of those type toilets do not seal air tight anyways. They always fail a final 1 inch water column when installed in new construction.

 

[Kamy]

They always fail a final 1 inch water column when installed in new construction.

I have no idea what that means

 

[Bret86844]

I have no idea what that means

lol, it's a measurement of pressure. For reference, 1 psi = 26.6 inches water column. So it's not a lot of pressure.

 

[Ghostmaker]

They tend to leak sewer smell.

 

[paintdrying]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sioux-Chief-Stainless-Steel-Flange-Repair-Ring-886-MR/202274075


I bolt these to the existing flange, or through the flange into the concrete. I then install a gerber viper toilet, shim if needed, then I caulk around the entire base, including the back.

On rentals I install a really long flexible supply line because I have had tenants tear out toilets due to their enormous size. I never have leaks or the sewer smell doing it this way

 

[Kamy]

They tend to leak sewer smell.

Are you talking about the Kohler Persuade toilets? I wanted to go with this one because of the slim lines and skirted bottom. This is a really tiny bathroom, and the slimness will offer the appearance of more space

 

[Kamy]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sioux-Chief-Stainless-Steel-Flange-Repair-Ring-886-MR/202274075


I bolt these to the existing flange, or through the flange into the concrete. I then install a gerber viper toilet, shim if needed, then I caulk around the entire base, including the back.

That's kind of what I am thinking of doing to repair the flange bolt, but am wary as I don't want to raise the level of the flange too much either. Plus, driving concrete screws through that old flange will likely destroy the base of the flange even further... not really sure what to do

 

[paintdrying]

All i can offer is half ass fixes that I never get call backs on. That stainless steel ring will fit over that flange nicely. The flange can crack, it is really just a spacer under the ring.
For a matter of ease and speed, drill into the concrete where their is gaps in the flange and run a tap con into the concrete. Plastic plugs my be easier for you to work with

 

[Kamy]

So I picked up a stainless steel flange repair ring, it's a no go because it will not fit over the existing cast iron closet flange. Too, because that one side broke away just by tapping on it, I was not feeling secure the rest of it would hold up even if I were to get one of the flatter types of repair rings. So some exploratory work and light taps with a hammer and cold chisel, yep, this thing was just waiting to crumble, (pics below). Had I even tried to drill any kind of flange kit down it would have just fell apart on me.

Anyway, can someone give me an idea of what I am looking at here?

The closet flange is obviously cast iron by how brittle it is, but what about the inside of the offset? Is that cast iron as well? or is that offset steel, and is there is a transition between the closet flange?

You can also see that someone in a moment of pure genius filled the grooves in the flange with cement, so I'm having a hard time really discerning what I am looking at

I'm going to keep chipping away at this, trying to clean out the cement, without destroying any more of the flange.

I really appreciate the help so far, and apologies in advance for being such a newb at this.

 

[Kamy]

Okay, got my bathroom light reinstalled so have better lighting. I can now see down inside the offset flange and can actually see the lead used to secure it to the drainage pipe.

If I could have gotten a flange repair kit on it, I think it would raise the level of the it would raise the level of the flange too high above my floor. What if I were to take a grinder to this flange, and lower it enough that I could bolt on a kit? I'm already screwed I think, so I'm willing to try just about anything before having to bust up my concrete floor.

Thoughts?