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Discussion Starter #1
Hello:

I have a Amana AMVC 96 2 stage furnace, and VisionPRO IAQ... along with an Aprilaire Model 800 humidifier and Venmar Constructo 2.0 HRV. I live in Ottawa Canada, and the HRV also vents the bathrooms (only ventilation). I haven't been loving the IAQ, (have replaced the original Hoenywell humidifier after 3 of them broke, disconnected it from the IAQ HUM, and have recently disconnected the HRV from IAQ VNT), so thinking of replacing it with a Nest. I'd also be getting rid of the IAQ Equip Interface Module... so I'm not sure how to run the extra fan connections - have the fan - G run when humidifier comes on and when HRV comes on, and the extra R C I have for running the HRV... just tie these all together with grommets before going to thermostat? Not sure if this is making sense... any thoughts appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Vincent.
 

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leave the iaq alone - it can do many things that a crappy nest can't, like slow the fan down to increase dehumidification.

nest is an apple-like produce -> designed to look nice, overpriced, limited in real functionality. maybe if you like apple products u may like the nest, otherwise stay away from it.
 

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have replaced the original Hoenywell humidifier after 3 of them broke, disconnected it from the IAQ HUM, and have recently disconnected the HRV from IAQ VNT
if your house is tight enough to need an hrv, it doesn't need a humidifier.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Still thinking...

I'll see if I can provide any more info and get any more / specific insights... I'm a bit concerned about the iaq, and would like wi-fi access (which I guess doesn't mean I need to move away from Honeywell)... our house is very dry in the winter... the HRV is the only thing to vent the bathrooms (and it's not easy to put normal vents in washrooms)... The house has a number of windows... so not as tight as it could be (64 points on EnerGuide rating). And it's big enough to require a lot of humidification - at one point when one of the humidifiers broke (at this point, the iaq was running them), and I had unplugged the HRV just in case, it got so bad the panels inside our new cupboards shrank (they're okay now), lips and noses chapped and dry... I think Honeywell humidifiers are not build well (at least for large houses)... but that's another story - and quite happy with the Aprilaire Model 800.

At this point I have disconnected the HRV from the iaq (was hooked up to VNT), and it only runs when it is turned on from a bathroom on a 20 min timer - I have it hooked up to turn on the furnace fan at the same time (HRV uses common return ducts with furnace)... anyway, the iaq still turns the heat / AC on every now and then, I guess thinking (based on inputs I provided in iaq programming such as number of rooms, etc.) my air quality needs improving... at 64 - the house is leaky enough to have me not worry about it... so rightfully or wrongfully, I'm thinking I want to replace to iaq once and for all - at this point it doesn't necessarily play nice with the non-Honeywell humidifier, so I have the Aprilaire hooked up with its own switch, and similarly, don't want the HRV turning on more than it needs to (putting moisture out, even though the heat stays in... and I'm not going to consider an ERV at this point), so it is hooked up manually (actually it's off unless manually turned from bathroom). I did consider letting the HRV run (at least through the summer) on low, but I hooked the HRV up to run the furnace fan (at it is not smart enough to know furnace fan low or high)... and I didn't want the furnace fan on all the time (but I did want the furnace fan on - supporting the HRV - when I was trying to get the moisture out of the bathrooms)...

So that's it... I can't seem to tweak the smart (maybe too smart for me) iaq well enough, it's disconnected from humidifier and HRV right now, (have seen at least one way to hook the Aprilaire up to the Nest), want wi-fi... (and really like apple products). Not 100% sold on Nest, but like Nest Protect and have a few Dropcams... I'm thinking it's all I need (but don't know how to hook up fan connections for furnace, etc (as per original message)... any thoughts welcome and appreciated.
 

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Nest is probably a bit better than the vision pro iaq (at least from a consumer point of view) but if you're running vents as well as humidifiers then the nest may not be your best option. It only has one auxiliary input.

The Honeywell Prestige 2 IAQ is one of Honeywell's high end stats which has multiple programmable inputs including a heavily detailed venting program (more so than the vision pro). It also has internet ability (with an additional gateway) and contains "redlink"... a wireless technology which allows you to connect additional wireless temp sensors (both indoor and outdoor)... which nest presently doesn't have.

Because the prestige offers way more options and does a lot more, it's a bit more difficult than the nest to install and set up. Nest is definitely easier to install and more "plugN'play"

https://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/products/thermostats/prestigeiaq/prestigeiaq_feature.html
 

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How are you running your HRV now?

Best practice would be to put push-button timer controls in the bathrooms that switch on the hrv when showering. They may even make wireless ones if running wires isn't an option.

That, and a humidistat that cycles the hrv on only when the indoor humidity gets too high.

If you're running the hrv full time or even half the time, you're probably over-ventilating the house. Except for when showering, the hrv and humidifier should never be running at the same time - the HRV's dehumidistat would be set 10% or higher than the humidifier's humidity control so they don't "fight" each other.

With an energuide score of 64, you probably don't need an HRV to provide general ventilation. HRVs originally came out in the late 70s or early 80s for the new generation super tight, energy efficient homes built to meet r-2000 standards. (it's a canadian invention, btw)

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Disconnecting the humidifier and hrv are fine if you're not happy with how it's operating them.

My point was, the iaq is a good stat even just for controlling a two-stage furnace with variable speed blower. For anything to work the way you want it to, it has to be fully configured.

If you insist on something that looks fancy and has wifi, look into the eco-bee 3. It's priced the same as the nest but has a lot of features; also ships with a remote sensor to get a second reading and average them out.
 
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How are you running your HRV now?

Best practice would be to put push-button timer controls in the bathrooms that switch on the hrv when showering. They may even make wireless ones if running wires isn't an option.
One of the add on accessories to the Honeywell Prestige 2 iaq happen to be wireless fan booster controls for ventilation systems. If you have multiple bathrooms then you can wirelessly connect more than one.
https://customer.honeywell.com/en-US/pages/product.aspx?cat=HonECC Catalog&pid=HVC20A1000/U#
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Feedback

Thanks guys for the feedback. @Bob Sanders - knew about the 1 aux port, but thought I'd just use if for the humidifier, since the HRV really doesn't seem to be required for air quality... my concern with doing anything with the venting (eg besides leaving HRV off except when showering) is the dryness of the house... I'm still concerned the iaq is venting more than I want based on some internal algorithms. I will take a look at the prestige 2 and see if I can figure that out... if I thought it could play nice with the HRV with a wireless sensor, I'd get it in a minute (I have a strange feeling it won't even mention a Venmar Constructo 2.0 in its manual).
@user 12345a - Venmar seems a bit behind on controls... but wired them in a few years ago (when I bought the house, they weren't using the HRV, even though that was the only vent for the bathrooms?). One of the install guides says to run it all the time at min... I didn't consider that... esp since I decided to get it to turn the furnace fan on... and with you re the HRV and humidifier fighting each other - so HRV is off, except when turned on in bathroom (not the intake ducting is separate). Agree with 64, don't need HRV... my house was built about 25 yrs ago, but I guess the windows are what makes it so un-tight (and the HRV not really required).

I am interested in the point re iaq controlling a 2 stage furnace with variable speed blower... the nest and ecobee have connections for that... is there something they don't support? I chose the nest over ecobee as I had other nest products (and thought it was cool when the fire alarm went off with too hot of a frying pan, it e-mailed me a picture of what's going on outside my front door with the dropcam... okay, I know, toys, and not that useful...). I still don't get the ecobee remote sensors... I'm thinking since i have 5 in my family, (and one furnace) extra sensors don't do much for me.

One of my original, really stupid questions, was, assuming a set-up close to my current one, do I just put all the fan controls into the same connector / tie them together. Right now I have going into the G (fan) in the equipment interface module, 3 wires all stuffed in there - one straight from the furnace, one from the humidifier to turn the fan on when it goes on, one from the HRV to turn it on when the HRV gets switched on from bathroom... I also have multiple wires going into R and C for the humidifier and HRV as required... If I get the nest (or ecobee), do I just tie all these together before feeding the thermostat (since there is no more equip interface module)... it seems low tech / not sure if I have these right. If anyone is curious, I'll try to attach a wiring diagram (not including AC).

Thanks again!
 

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I'm not going to comment on the specifics of your hrv controls, since i'm not familiar with them.

Ideally you would only want the HRV coming on at regular speed when there's actually a call for ventilation, no continuous low speed. Some may say otherwise, I say keep it simple.

Check to see if there's a way to set it up so that it runs that way. Hopefully there's a set of high speed 24vac contacts that you can connect to a regular dehumidistat. I do recommend that; could come in handy in the fall. (could also wire in a parallel switch or something to turn it on on special occasions -> having people over and need fresh air, etc.)

You don't need the furnace fan running with the HRV ducted to the bathroom btw; fresh air will find it's way into the living space naturally through the ductwork. You only need that when pulling stale air from the return air as well.

Was the HRV put in when the house was built, or did you put it in?

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I think all of the stats you're considering have a W2 connection. (which may not be connected if your typical residential contractor did it) The nest probably doesn't have a slow down to dehumidify connection, where the board cuts the cooling speed by something like 20% when the humidity exceeds a certain point.

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If you want a cleaner installation, put a 18 gauge wire with many conductors (maybe 10-12) from the interface module to the furnace and make all the humidifier/ventilation connections at the furnace control board. You may need some wire nuts, labelling would be nice so whoever opens the furnace knows what's what.
 

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You need to check your local codes on ventilation. There are some locals which require a certain cfm and air exchange for a given house size.

The prestige can either be set up to run vents to meet that ASHRE standard or it can be set up to run on a time percentage of your choosing. It's a pretty detailed algorithm which includes that ability to lock out ventilation under certain unfavorable weather conditions.

Ventilation Control Methods (ISU 10050)
Ventilation can be setup to meet either ASHRAE or Percent On Time settings. To meet these settings, the thermostat will ventilate during calls for heat, cool, and fan. If the required ventilation has not been achieved for ASHRAE or Percent On Time, the thermostat will force the ventilation equipment on.
•ASHRAE
The thermostat operates ventilation equipment to meet the ASHRAE 62.2 ventilation standard based on CFM, number of bedrooms, and square footage of the house. ASHRAE
62.2 can only be met if the ventilation equipment is running. If the ventilation equipment is off for any reason (outdoor ventilation lockouts, set up to turn Off during Sleep period, turned off by user, etc.), ASHRAE 62.2 is not met during those times. See ISU 10125 to select a Ventilation Priority.
•Percent On Time
The thermostat operates ventilation equipment based on a percentage entered in the installer setup (ISU 10120). For example if Percent On Time is set to 50%, the ventilation equipment will run at random times during a 1 hour period until it reaches a 50% run time (approximately 30 minutes). Default setting is 30%. Range is 10% to 100% in 10% increments.

Ventilation Priority (ISU 10125)
•Lockouts are Priority
The thermostat places a priority on lockouts versus the ASHRAE 62.2 ventilation standard. The thermostat will not run ventilation during the following lockout conditions (if configured) unless you manually call for ventilation: — Lockout Ventilation during Outdoor Conditions (ISU
10130)
—Lockout Ventilation on Humidification or Dehumidification Calls (ISU 10140)
—Lockout Ventilation during “Sleep” (Residential) or “Unoccupied” (Commercial) program periods. Note: This option is set by the user on the Ventilation screen in the Menu.
•ASHRAE is Priority
ASHRAE requires additional ventilation following a long off cycle. The thermostat meets the ASHRAE 62.2 ventilation standard by running additional ventilation when outdoor conditions are favorable. If ASHRAE cannot be met when outdoor conditions are favorable, the thermostat will override the outdoor lockouts and run ventilation. When using this option, it is recommended to increase the rate (CFM) of the ventilation equipment to meet the ASHRAE
62.2 ventilation standard in a shorter run time.
NOTES: ISU 10140 “Lockout Ventilation on Humidification or Dehumidification Calls” is not an option when you select “ASHRAE is Priority”.
The ability to lockout ventilation during the “Sleep” or “Unoccupied” program periods is not an option when you select “ASHRAE is Priority”.

Ventilation — Outdoor Condition Lockouts (ISU 10130)
Ventilation will not operate when outdoor conditions exceed the lockout settings unless you manually call for ventilation or Ventilation Priority (ISU 10125) is set to ASHRAE is Priority and ventilation is needed to meet ASHRAE. Lockouts can prevent ventilation during extreme weather conditions to keep humid, hot, and cold air out of the home.
NOTE: This feature requires an outdoor sensor.
If the outdoor sensor also measures humidity, ventilation will not be allowed when the outdoor dewpoint is above the level you set. Options are: • Ventilation Low Temperature Lockout Setpoint
(Off, -20° to 40° F)
•Ventilation High Temperature Lockout Setpoint (Off, 80° to 110° F)
•Ventilation High Dewpoint Lockout Setpoint (Off, 65° to 85° F)
Refer to the information below if you need assistance setting the High Dewpoint Lockout.
• Higher than 80: Extremely uncomfortable
• 75 to 80: Very uncomfortable
• 70 to 74: Quite uncomfortable
• 65 to 69: Somewhat uncomfortable
Other thermostats like Nest, vision pro, ecobee... etc, simply don't have this level of ventilation control to them.

Of course if you're not connecting VENT to the system then it's all moot.

There is one other thing to think about. The vision pro IAQ (if I remember correctly) uses only 3 wires between the stat and the module downstairs so you may only have 3 wires at the thermostat (you will have to check) The nest and ecobee require all connections to be made at the thermostat, which means all control wires need to be run to the thermostat. In other words you may end up having to pull more wires if you go with Nest. The prestige only requirres 2 wires at the thermostat. Everything else connects to the module which is usually located at the furnace.
 

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I am interested in the point re iaq controlling a 2 stage furnace with variable speed blower... the nest and ecobee have connections for that... is there something they don't support?

Thanks again!
They all support multi stage heat. The IAQ however comes with inlet and outlet duct temp sensing ability, which can be used to detect (and send alert) on individual stage malfunctions or problems.
 

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Codes are more for design/engineering when a house or building is being put up - when you already have a system, you apply common sense and do what's needed. Codes for ventilation are there to make sure that there's enough for the most extreme conditions.

If you want to get technical and make sure the house has enough ventilation in theory, would have to do a blower door test, convert the cfm50 value to natural air changes per hour and see how much ventilation is needed. Even that isn't accurate, because number of people and weather vary.

Most accurate would be a control that monitors humidity and co2 - triggers ventilation when either is above a threshold. Could also do fancy stuff with occupancy sensors.

None of this stuff is really necessary in a simple house that likely gets enough ventilation by itself and through the use of exhaust fans; it's not like you're dealing with a hospital or electronics clean room. Even with a very tight house, all you need is a dehumidistat - humidity is a pretty good gauge of air exchange and occupancy.

Keep it simple.

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IAQs ventilation features are overkill. I think it's a good product, for it's dual fuel heatpump controls and supporting two stages of backup heat on top of a two-stage heatpump. most people don't need something so fancy though.
 

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IAQs ventilation features are overkill. I think it's a good product, for it's dual fuel heatpump controls and supporting two stages of backup heat on top of a two-stage heatpump. most people don't need something so fancy though.
The Prestige comes with some heavy detail because it is not just for residential applications. It has two modes of operation "residential" and "commercial" (there are some internal programming changes for each of the 2 modes) and the rules are pretty tight for commercial applications.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Honeywell Prestige 2 IAQ

Re: Honeywell Prestige 2 IAQ
After some investigation, I'm thinking this could work if not stupid impractical to buy. Does anyone know where to buy this... I'm not a professional, but think I can figure out the install... Ideally would like a Cdn seller, who I could call if necessary... ideally a full service seller / retailer (eg could get the main kit, plus gateway, plus remote temp monitor, plus vent timer... which actually could work I think..)... main web sites (amazon, ebay) not my first preference, and don't want to pay for install (given it's going to cost a ton to get all pieces I'd need)...
 

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Is it just to add wifi?

There are less expensive stats that will do it if you don't need the iaq features.

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Where to buy pro stats:

1. Ebay
2. A local appliance repair place that also does some furnaces/acs will may be more willing to sell parts
3. Some here have used alpine indoor air
 

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Discussion Starter #18
A few reasons... I'm swayed a bit by a lot of people not giving nest a lot of love... and am thinking that things are a bit un-integrated. The wireless remote timer for the vent might actually come in handy for the one or two areas that I didn't hard wire... and I never thought of controlling them from the iaq, as right now the wired ones go to the HRV... and the HRV controllers are limited (as are the HRV controls, which I think I could do more of from within the iaq). I also don't like the way I had to resort to hooking up the humidifier - totally independently. That might be my bad, but have found difficultly getting experienced installers in town with this range of equipment (my wife still hasn't gotten over when this stuff was installed, seeing the installer out in the truck in our driveway for way too long reading the manual - and that was the premium supplier)... having multiple replacements and repairs (re honeywell humidifers) didn't help much either. I also like the (wireless) outdoor temp hook-up... which might come in handy. So yes, wi-fi, and maybe the dream of actually having an integrated system (as advertised with the old iaq)...
 

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Not sure if the title of my last message came through... I'm talking about the Honeywell Prestige 2 IAQ
It's a nice machine... if you can get over the sticker shock.

I'm in Canada as well and by the time you finish paying the various shipping charges on the stat and accessories, you're talking around $500. I think it's still cheaper going through ebay in the USA though... at least that's where I got mine. Fast, good shipping on all products I ordered.

You will need:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honeywell-2-Wire-Prestige-IAQ-Kit-model-YTHX9421R5085-/161836177572

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honeywell-T...-Thermostat-/191508320967?hash=item2c96c912c7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honeywell-C...sor-RedLINK-/181706855462?hash=item2a4e929426

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Honeywell-Re...-HVC20A1000-/191477093804?hash=item2c94ec95ac



You may want to go through ebay and look for better prices. I just threw the stuff together so you will know what you need (although the thermostat kit is a bloody good price and the shipping is reasonable.)

Sorry... I just edited. That last one was wrong. I showed you an entry/exit remote instead of a vent timer..... been corrected now.
 

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I also don't like the way I had to resort to hooking up the humidifier - totally independently.
What kept on dying on the humidifier? the solenoid?

You sure it's getting the correct voltage? Not normal to have these things dye.

Normally the humidifier is done from the control board connects through a humidistat. iaq may have separate contacts so you can maintain the interlock with heating. there's no point of running a flow-through without the heat running as well.

Better to control humidifiers and HRVs separately. You can get a wireless sensor and wi-fi with a regular vision pro redlink - would prob set u back $250 us total.
 
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