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the Musigician
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Seen on line.... somewhere:

This will never happen here but it would have been a good thing years ago.
Finally . . . a coming to the senses!!!
Let s Go With the Dutch - but why wait until 2013?
(Better be late than NEVER!)

The Netherlands , where six per cent of the population is now Muslim, is scrapping multiculturalism:

The Dutch government says it will abandon the long-standing model of multiculturalism that has encouraged Muslim immigrants to create a parallel society within the Netherlands.

A new integration bill, which Dutch Interior Minister Piet Hein Donner presented to parliament on June 16, reads:
"The government shares the social dissatisfaction over the multicultural society model and plans to shift priority to the values of the Dutch people.

In the new integration system, the values of the Dutch society play a central role."

With this change, the government steps away from the model of a multicultural society.

The letter continues: "A more obligatory integration is justified because the government also demands that from its own citizens.

It is necessary because otherwise the society gradually grows apart and eventually no one feels at home anymore in the Netherlands ..
The new integration policy will place more demands on immigrants.
For example, immigrants will be required to learn the Dutch language and the government will take a tougher approach to immigrants who ignore Dutch values or disobey Dutch law."

The government will also stop offering special subsidies for Muslim immigrants because, according to Donner;
"It is not the government's job to integrate immigrants." (How bloody true).

The government will introduce new legislation that outlaws forced marriages and will also impose tougher measures against Muslim immigrants who lower their chances of employment by the way they dress.
More specifically, the government will impose a ban on face-covering, Islamic burqas as of January 1, 2013.

Holland has done that whole liberal thing, and realized - maybe too late - that creating a nation of tribes will kill the nation itself.

The future of Australia , the United States , UK and Canada may well be read here.

NOTE: Muslim immigrants leave their countries of birth because of civil and political unrest "CREATED BY THE VERY NATURE OF THEIR CULTURE."

Countries such as Holland , Canada , the UK and Australia have an established way of life that actually works, so why embrace the unworkable?
If Muslims do not wish to accept another culture, the answer is simple;
"STAY WHERE YOU ARE!!" "Or go back to where you were!"

Something to think about...

DM
 

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NOTE: Muslim immigrants leave their countries of birth because of civil and political unrest "CREATED BY THE VERY NATURE OF THEIR CULTURE."
That civil and political unrest couldn't at all be because Foreign powers provide arms to rebel bodies and inject their own military forces within the same fights....no, no, no, America has never dropped a bomb in the middle east...

The above sounds like it could have been written by any culturally/racially prejudiced group. Remove muslim and insert mexican and remove dutch and put american. Sad part is that the bulk of the mexicans coming to America is because our government so heavily subisidized the american corn industry that we destroyed the mexican corn industry. So they are moving north to find work doing what they were doing...Growing our corn. But if we send them all "home" are we going to grow our own corn? No, because we would only make minimum wage at best.

As we come into a globalized civilization, I find statements like this to be total roadblocks to reaching a peacefull globalized state. Are we really going to segregate the globe? Then who gets the dutch land? Who gets America? Who gets Europe? Are these decisions to be decided with brute force and blood? Likely yes. The climate is changing and with it will come climate-driven refugees. Are we going to turn away certain nationalities and religious viewpoints? If so, then we are going to resurect the basic idealogy of Hitler....Hmm....sounds like the last 60 years have been overflowing with advancement...
 

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I can see where this thread can turn sour quick, if it does it will be closed.
One statement you made "Are we going to turn away certain nationalities and religious viewpoints?"I would say, yes, if all they want to do is dominate the world and kill anyone who doesn't believe as they do. Hitler? I guess we are just to roll over and let them kill everyone. Are you saying you are for a globalized state? Who would be in charge of this globalized state? Russia, China, USA, Middle East?
 

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JOATMON
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....................

As we come into a globalized civilization, I find statements like this to be total roadblocks to reaching a peacefull globalized state. Are we really going to segregate the globe? Then who gets the dutch land? Who gets America? Who gets Europe? Are these decisions to be decided with brute force and blood? Likely yes. The climate is changing and with it will come climate-driven refugees. Are we going to turn away certain nationalities and religious viewpoints? If so, then we are going to resurect the basic idealogy of Hitler....Hmm....sounds like the last 60 years have been overflowing with advancement...
You live in CN.....I really doubt you have a "Little Sigon", "China Town" or "Little Mexico" in your area. I bet you also watch MSMBC....the most biased and racists news broadcast on TV.

I find the actions of the Dutch to be quite reasonable....

Having suffered through many a riot her in LA because a group (most of whom where in the country illegally anyway) protesting 'some' violation of their rights.....I have little tollerance for their BS.

This is America....if you want to come here for a better life....great....but don't try to get me to change....we speak English...you don't have to give up your culture....embrace it all you want....just don't force it on me...don't expect me to accommdate it....if you don't like the way we do things here....go back to your home country....
 

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You live in CN.....I really doubt you have a "Little Sigon", "China Town" or "Little Mexico" in your area. I bet you also watch MSMBC....the most biased and racists news broadcast on TV.
I live in town dubber Little Puerto Rico because there is a sign in PR telling people to come there. Been confirmed to me that the sign does exist. I don't watch MSNBC...don't even have cable.

This is America....if you want to come here for a better life....great....but don't try to get me to change....we speak English...you don't have to give up your culture....embrace it all you want....just don't force it on me...don't expect me to accommdate it....if you don't like the way we do things here....go back to your home country....
Like we did to the Native Americans? We didn't go back home...why should they?
 

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I would say, yes, if all they want to do is dominate the world and kill anyone who doesn't believe as they do. Hitler? I guess we are just to roll over and let them kill everyone.
Muslim extremists and muslims are completely different. That's like saying all Baptists (Christianity) are like the Westboro Baptists....so not true...

Are you saying you are for a globalized state? Who would be in charge of this globalized state? Russia, China, USA, Middle East?
I'd prefer to not have a globalized state as the ideals (laws) of various parts of the world can't be effectively sorted by a single entity. But, we should be moving towards globalization in terms of social structures. Racism, religious persecutions, and all the other similar nasties of our history have no logical place in a globalized world where you can eat breakfast in NY and dinner in Beijing. Where the food you eat and clothes you wear are grown/made across oceans. Just my opinion...
 

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Learning Things Every Day
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The above sounds like it could have been written by any culturally/racially prejudiced group.
What racial and cultural minorities seem to fail to realize is that just because a person/group/government is not pro Race X, does not automatically mean that they're anti Race X. Your point of view is a classic example of 'playing the race card', and no, you don't need to be a member of said race/culture to play it. There's a certain political party here in America that milks that for all it's worth.

Anyone who doesn't support every demand of every minority surely must be a racist, right? Wrong!
Muslim extremists and muslims are completely different.
That's what they'd like you to believe, but if you'd like the truth, feel free to visit my home city - Dearborn, Michigan - home of the largest population of Arab Muslims in the country. Just because someone isn't actively attempting to blow you up doesn't mean they don't want to see you dead.

To be fair, I have known a few exceptions, but with all due respect, I think your comment is naive.
 

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The last estimate I saw, said that in 40 years, the majority population in all the major countries will be Muslim. I think the Dutch solution will only be a temporary fix.
 

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That's what they'd like you to believe, but if you'd like the truth....
The truth? The truth is that EVERY religion has false flags and smokescreens to hide it's human elements and justify war. You think the muslim religion is dangerous? What about the the wars, executions, etc. of Catholocism, Christianity, Judaism and more throughout our recent history? In 2000 there were killings in India by Christian extremists and as recent as 2009 there where Christian extremest groups forcing people to convert from Budhism at gunpoint.

So am I to assume all Christians would love to see me dead too because I'm not a Christian?
 

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Learning Things Every Day
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The truth? The truth is that EVERY religion has false flags and smokescreens to hide it's human elements and justify war. You think the muslim religion is dangerous? What about the the wars, executions, etc. of Catholocism, Christianity, Judaism and more throughout our recent history? In 2000 there were killings in India by Christian extremists and as recent as 2009 there where Christian extremest groups forcing people to convert from Budhism at gunpoint.
I think you and I have some common ground, because I wholeheartedly agree with all of the above. :thumbsup:

Long ago, I came to the conclusion that all religions are a joke. I thought of mentioning this in my initial post, for the very reason you mentioned, but didn't because I didn't want to stray too far off topic. I mean no offense to anyone here (if people believe in religious teachings that promote peace and respect for others, then that of course is great), but IMO, religion is a man-made tool used to control people and to attempt to make sense of things we don't understand. Religions have dirty hands, and I want nothing to do with it.

With that said, I do have a strong, unwavering faith in God. My point of view is complex, but for now at least, I'll leave it at that.


So am I to assume all Christians would love to see me dead too because I'm not a Christian?
I will be the first to admit I'm not very well-versed in the Bible, and know even less about the Quran, but it is my understanding that the Quran/Muslims view any non-Muslims as a lesser species. I know of no such interpretations within the Christian Bible. If I am mistaken, someone please correct me.
 

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I will be the first to admit I'm not very well-versed in the Bible, and know even less about the Quran, but it is my understanding that the Quran/Muslims view any non-Muslims as a lesser species. I know of no such interpretations within the Christian Bible. If I am mistaken, someone please correct me.
There are of course bad interpretations of any religious texts. Those nutjobs in Kansas (Westboro Baptist Church) claim to be following the Bible when they picket the funerals of dead soldiers and children.

When you're working from texts that are THOUSANDS of years old and translated nine times from long-dead languages, interpretation is pretty much up in teh air. I understand people who believe in the idea of God or even some specific details, but when people take those books at face value, pretending that their interpretation is 100% true... it blows my mind.
 

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There are of course bad interpretations of any religious texts. Those nutjobs in Kansas (Westboro Baptist Church) claim to be following the Bible when they picket the funerals of dead soldiers and children.

When you're working from texts that are THOUSANDS of years old and translated nine times from long-dead languages, interpretation is pretty much up in teh air. I understand people who believe in the idea of God or even some specific details, but when people take those books at face value, pretending that their interpretation is 100% true... it blows my mind.
Considering that Roman Emperer constantine's priests wrote the current Bible under a deadline with a penalty of death, kinda hard to believe it all.
 

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Considering that Roman Emperer constantine's priests wrote the current Bible...
They do say it is the best book EVER written...it is the all-time best-seller and people devote their entire lives and much of their net-worth to it without question.

I, personally, find it fascinating human being's NEED for heirarchy both physically and spiritually. Existence without an umbrella of heirarchy (gov't) creates anarchy which is always destined to be re-formed into a heirarchy (usually as despotic system like gangs, tribes, etc. where there is a singular leader). The OP is a form of Dominance hierarchy where a group is creating a sort of ranking system for social/civil liberties. The Middle East holy wars are primarily a fight for religious dominance within the region but is also directly tangeable to the physical heirarchy of governments within the region.
 

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Considering that Roman Emperer constantine's priests wrote the current Bible under a deadline with a penalty of death, kinda hard to believe it all.
Without starting an argument, this is partially true, he did write one bible.
 

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I have been working in many different countries and I believe that each group of people prefer their own specie.

Very very true.

Everybody (at least those from an industrialized country) belief that their own country and their own way of life and their own set of values is the best in the world.

To not realize this could be considered arrogant
 

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I have been working in many different countries and I believe that each group of people prefer their own specie.
Let's refine this statement for the modern world: Each person prefers their preferences.

I know people of different races/creeds/religions that prefer different things (races/creeds/religions/etc.) of their society. Likely this is due to America's "melting pot", but it's in us all. We like what we are familiar with and what our peers (friends, family, celebrities, news anchors, politicians, etc.) indicate we should like. The majority of a population will always be that way, whether we like it or not...
 

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greetings from Bolivia
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Very very true.

Everybody (at least those from an industrialized country) belief that their own country and their own way of life and their own set of values is the best in the world.

To not realize this could be considered arrogant
it is not a matter of 'the best', it is just a matter of preference, so asian prefer rice and you maybe potatoes, neither is superiour. Same is true about races. About religion, this has been going on for 10000's of years so nothing new. Does simply not mix/ integrate/ etc. Period.
 

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Amsterdam was international city and powerful long before the U.S. was considered. That is because it was economic power, trading center and had a great port/harbor. Consequently, people from everywhere have lived there for centuries and have continued to do so now. It is one of the most international cities in the world.

There is limited land space and the Netherlands have always built/created land and took away the ocean. There is concern about limited land the extremely high property costs, despite the high wages. I think this one factor in trying to limit emigration is some way.

I have very frequently traveled internationally and always try to make Amsterdam a layover if possible because of airport and great connections to the rest of the world. When you go to a square in the city and sit at table, you hear all sorts of languages, while you smell the aromas from the "international" restaurants around the small squares and most people get there on bicycles or metro train.

The fact that there is only 6% Muslems is not surprising since the the Israelis, Africans, Russians, Indians, Germans, Brazilians, Argentinians and Asians each are probably higher, making the "native" true Dutch a minority, just as the true U.S., Canadians and Australian residents are based on by immigrants over the years.

The bill is just created by someone trying to create some limited support.

Dick
 
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