[MsKitty32]

I have a large livingroom ceiling that is textured. It doesn't look like the typical "popcorn" ceiling to me. It is very hard and no pieces come off with rubbing. It isn't a uniform texture throughout - some areas are smoother than others. How was this done - with compound by hand?

I would like to smooth out the ceiling. It doesn't seem like wetting it down and scraping would work like removing a popcorn ceiling. Would painting smooth it out or am I looking at lots of sanding to smooth it down?

I don't hate the textured look BUT in the second picture you can see what appears to be paint roller marks? I am not sure if the ceiling was painted after this textured effect was done or if the roller made the textured look??? I can deal with a somewhat textured look but I would like to get rid of the roller marks. Is there a way to do that by getting a new coat of paint on it?

You may also notice the ghosting in the second pic. I have read about thermal bridging but am not sure if this is what I am dealing with or the fact that I have a 1940s house with a brick fireplace in this room that was used and the soot has collected on the beams because they are cooler in temp than the insulated walls. I was considering coating with BIN to hide the ghosting no matter what I decide to do.

There is one crack in the ceiling. There doesn't seem to be any water damage around it or anything else that seems like it would've cause the crack. My best guess is that someone was in the attic and didn't put his/her foot on the ceiling beam and put their foot down on the drywall instead and oops cracked it. Is there a way to fix this without removing that entire piece of drywall or sheetrock (whatever they make ceilings with?).

Can I get options for each issue? Thanks.

 

[cdaniels]

It's not what is commonly referred to as a "popcorn" texture looks like hand stippled to me. It would take a lot of sanding over the painted ceiling and skimming with joint compound to make it smooth but it can be done.As far as the crack, I think you have plaster instead of drywall.I wold screw drywall scews on each side into the lathe to stop any movement so the crack doesn't happen again,sand the area around the crack smooth,tape it with fiberglass mesh tape and skim it with joint compound.If you decide to leave the texture you can try to texture the patched spot with joint compound and a stippling brush to blend it in with the existing texture.The second pic looks to be roller lap marks.Finish by painting with two coats of a quality flat ceiling paint and it will take care of that.

 

[jsheridan]

MsKitty, that looks like a textured paint applied with a specialty roller, and it's not a good job at that. It also looks like someone put a sheen paint over top of it and the marks you are seeing is because it was rolled every which way, and you're seeing lap marks. That's what I see.
Short of re-rocking that ceiling, I would apply two coats of a dead flat ceiling paint. The sheen is only making a bad situation worse, and use some floor/table lamps to soften the light. That would really change the look.
I would try to fix that crack with a highly elastic caulk, or construction adhesive to close it. A textured ceiling can absorb a minor defect like that. You'll never reproduce that texture if you decide to patch with joint compound.
Wash the walls and apply the BIN, then finish. Is the ceiling ghosting as well?

 

[cdaniels]

I disagree, caulking will eventually fail if the movement is not stopped.I could match the texture close enough to blend in, not perfectly, but close.

 

[jsheridan]

I disagree, caulking will eventually fail if the movement is not stopped.I could match the texture close enough to blend in, not perfectly, but close.

YOU might be able to do it, but she's the one who will be doing it, big distinction. From the looks of the crack, I think she has it right in that it was probably a foot through the attic. It stops on both ends in the pic, not consistent with a stress crack. I agree that caulk is not the best long term solution, but if it was a foot, it's done cracking. I've used construction adhesive before on troublesome cracks, and they never come back. I learned that little trick on a DIY show.

I thought you would disagree on the texture. After reading you and looking closer it looks less like textured paint than a compound type of texture.

 

[MsKitty32]

I am not surprised by the bad job the previous homeowner did. The lap marks created by rolling every which way seems reasonable to me as well. What is a "sheen" paint? Is that sort of like a semi-gloss on walls - the high gloss look? How much of the texture do you think will disappear by applying two coats of flat ceiling paint?

If I apply the elastic caulk to the ceiling crack will it still be visible or will the caulk hide it somewhat? I really don't think it is plaster so I am not sure putting screws in either side of the crack will work - only because I am not sure the crack (assuming drywall) runs along the beam...but it may...so I wouldn't be anchoring the screws into anything. I did notice when I took the picture that I can push up slightly on the left side of the crack and the ceiling can be pushed up slightly...but very slightly.

The ceiling is ghosting as well as the walls. Everything in this room was painted antique white....walls, woodwork, etc. and it is so blah. I am really hoping the BIN will solve the ghosting issue for both walls and ceiling.

 

[cdaniels]

She could do it with a little effort.Good thing about trying to match it with compound-If you don't get it right the first time it will sand off easily for another try. Ms.kitty said the house was built in the forties, that's why I think it's a stress crack in plaster and not drywall.I'm not saying you are wrong JS, just my humble opinion.

 

[MsKitty32]

So you guys think it was probably done with a stippling brush vs textured paint? I can take more pics if you need. It is just very weird to me that some of it is more textured and other spots are smoother but I know nothing about texturing.

I honestly don't think the crack is getting bigger. I really do think it was a foot through the attic type deal because there is a vent on that side of the house that can be checked from within the attic. I know this because we checked them just a month ago to make sure there was still screen on them. I believe the vent is right above the crack making me think when it was checked someone slipped and stepped on the ceiling.

 

[MsKitty32]

I don't know if this helps but the walls are drywall and not plaster. Doesn't plaster go along with lathe? We def don't have plaster and lathe on the walls. So would they have used plaster and lathe on the ceiling if walls are drywall? There are no other ceiling cracks in any of the rooms but we do have a couple of cracks below two windows which I am pretty sure are stress cracks.

 

[jsheridan]

I am not surprised by the bad job the previous homeowner did. The lap marks created by rolling every which way seems reasonable to me as well. What is a "sheen" paint? Is that sort of like a semi-gloss on walls - the high gloss look? How much of the texture do you think will disappear by applying two coats of flat ceiling paint?
Correct. Sheen is gloss, to one degree or another. The one picture looks like a satin, which is a horrible choice, personal opinion, for a textured ceiling, even a competently done one. Anything that disrupts light causes shadows, and texture disrupts light. Satin reflects light so the whole ceiling becomes a sea of shadows. Even the roller marks on the sheen paint are differences in the texture of the paint film. Flat doesn't reflect light and it will hide defects and differences in texture much better.

If I apply the elastic caulk to the ceiling crack will it still be visible or will the caulk hide it somewhat? I really don't think it is plaster so I am not sure putting screws in either side of the crack will work - only because I am not sure the crack (assuming drywall) runs along the beam...but it may...so I wouldn't be anchoring the screws into anything. I did notice when I took the picture that I can push up slightly on the left side of the crack and the ceiling can be pushed up slightly...but very slightly.

Cdaniels is correct in what he said, caulk is not the best option, and it may or may not last long term. But if you're doing it yourself, it's the best option to get a clean acceptable outcome on a textured surface. If you play with the caulk the right way, to feather the crack out, but don't slather it on, combined with the flat it should be fine. Textured ceilings have a lot going on, that's why I said it could absorb a defect like that, especially on a ceiling that large it's a minor flaw. If you end up BIN' ing the ceiling, caulk before the BIN. Personally, I wouldn't use BIN on just the areas of the ceiling where the ghosting is occurring, but the whole ceiling, fun city, as you could end up with a non-uniform flat appearance.

The ceiling is ghosting as well as the walls. Everything in this room was painted antique white....walls, woodwork, etc. and it is so blah. I am really hoping the BIN will solve the ghosting issue for both walls and ceiling.

Hope that helps.

 

[cdaniels]

If it is drywall I would still tape it minus the screws but that's just me. I ASSumed it was plaster because of the age of the house. I have never tried the construction adhesive fix, I may give it a shot sometime but I personally have never caulked a crack in drywall or plaster that didn't open back up within a few months.Here is an article that may help you stop the "ghosting" from reoccurring.Good luck. http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jun/20/business/la-fi-inspect-20100620

 

[joecaption]

Why not have someone in the attic hold down a strip of plywood over that crack and add some screws from below to keep that crack from moving before trying to repair it from below it.

 

[ltd]

ok here's what I think:huh:. If you can put a couple of screws up there and catch a rafter good. If not I don't think its a big deal ,but with out being up close and personable who knows? anywho:huh: get a mini roller and a small tub of joint compound. mix in some water to thin it out a little, then roll compound over the crack. But keep it small don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. Finish off with some flat ceiling paint Bing bang boom done. p/s you know what? caulk on the crack is not a bad idea either.

 

[ToolSeeker]

OK my $.02 worth first determine if it is drywall or plaster, if plaster drywall screws will probably not work unless you put those little plastic circle things on them. Chaulk will work for the crack as long as it's repaired so it doesn't move anymore. As far as the texture you could probably re-texture one the existing with something like a knockdown. Or a lot of scraping and sanding and a skim coat, then prime and paint. Neither a fun job. You may want to look at this for the crack it's new I think, I've used it a couple times and was pleasantly surprised http://stepsaverproducts.com/Stress...2DA1198438393F8022585E1F784F6C77.qscstrfrnt06

 

[MsKitty32]

Upon further inspection of this crack...

1) It is def drywall.
2) The crack is pretty much along the wooden beam of the ceiling - so I am throwing out my idea that someone stepped on the actual ceiling while they were in the attic. It actually looks more like they stepped on that beam (close to where the crack is I am thinking) and for some reason it cracked the drywall. Would that happen? Or better yet, should that happen - stepping on the beam and cracking the drywall piece nailed to it? Again, no other cracks in the ceilings in any other rooms. And we have been up in the attic on numerous occasions walking around on the beams checking things out and no other ceiling cracks have come about.
3) I am attaching three more pics. In the first - hopefully you can see the ghosting - you shoud be able to see that the cracks runs right along the beam or pretty darn close. The second pic shows the part of the crack that deviates from the straight line of the crack. I just wanted to make sure everyone saw that it isn't just a straight as an arrow crack here. I wasn't sure if that would change the way to fix it. And third picture, is the entire crack again in a pic I just took.
4) I am wondering if it would be wise to try to find that beam - that may sound stupid - bc who wants it to crack more but I am pretty sure now this beam isn't directly below the vent on the outside wall. In fact, this crack is on a beam that is just to the one side of the center beam we walk on up in the attic to go from one end of the house to the other. So, I am wondering if the sucker won't crack more if we have to go up in the attic to walk along that center beam. I cannot say with 100% certainty that since we noticed the crack and after having been up in the attic walking around that the crack hasn't lengthened. I don't think it has BUT I can't say for sure. I guess I could put pencil marks on either end and see if it lengthens.
5) I was going to attempt to fix the crack by employing three methods everyone mentioned....screwing if it is close enough to the beam to screw it into the beam....caulking the crack....and possibly then taping and mudding. However, I need to sand the area around the crack baby butt smooth before I tape and mud right?
6) With regards to using BIN on the ceiling - and yes I was going to slap that stuff on the entire ceiling - is the BIN itself designed to cover the stains? I know it seals everything down but I have never opened a can of BIN and wasn't sure if it was white. My thought was that after I applied the BIN - not sure how many coats - that I wouldn't see the ghosting anymore before I put on my two coats of flat ceiling paint.
7) Finally, what particular pattern do I roll the paint on with for the ceiling? In the typical W pattern or it is different for ceilings?

 

[cdaniels]

If you tape and mud you need it smooth at least a couple inches around the patch so you can get it smooth over the tape.Then you can texture it with compound after it's dry.After the ceiling is fixed a coat of BIN and 2 coats of flat ceiling paint and it will look nice.Roll it the same as you would do a wall all in the same direction.You will need to stop the cause of the "ghosting" though, or it may happen again.

 

[jsheridan]

MissKitty, please, listen to me. We spend hours on this forum discussing dealing with and recreating texture, and I think the tone of those discussions is pessimistic. No offense but texture recreation is difficult for pros who work with the tools everyday let alone for a homeowner.
That crack looks to be about 16-18 inches long, so by the time you get done patching it with tape, to effectively feather it out, the whole patch should be about 12 wide and 24+ long. If you can't effectively reproduce that texture, perfectly, you'll have a one by two foot defect on your ceiling, instead of that little crack. And that will be after hours and hours of frustrating effort, trust me.
That little crack, which doesn't look like a typical stress crack to me, will be practically invisible in the scheme of things. Work some caulk into the crack and use some to soften the ridge, let it dry, roll the BIN, roll two coats of flat and that won't be an issue. If it opens a bit later on, just put a little more caulk in and touch it up. Please, again, don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.
A full out tape and mudding for that crack is unnecessary and will be a mistake.

On BIN, yes it's an off white and will seal the ghosting. By the way, do live close to a major highway?

 

[MsKitty32]

Jsheridan, thanks, I trust what you are saying and will do just the caulk and BIN and two coats of paint. I think I asked before but how much texture will disappear or how much will the ceiling flatted out by adding the BIN and two coats of paint? I realize it won't be smooth.

I wouldn't say we live near a major highway BUT it does get a good amount of traffic for our area. I live in upstate NY...about 45 mins south of the Canadian border. The road we live on is a State Highway. The house does not sit close to the road and we are actually up on a hill.

I am really not sure what caused the ghosting. This is a 1940s house and I am assuming the insulation in the walls could be better. It is clapboard siding and we would like to put up vinyl siding someday...sigh. There is a fireplace in this room and we do not use it now but it was used previously. We have a pellet stove in use in this room and occasionally, but not very often, we use the boiler...we have radiators in every room. The ghosting is on the walls and celing in this room, only in the ceiling in the kitchen which is directly off this room and on two of the three bedroom ceilings but not the walls in any other room besides this one. There is a room down cellar that MAY or MAY NOT have been used to store coal for heating purposes...we are not sure. There are mines within a half mile from our house...talc and zinc mines which are bare bones running now. This house was built by the miners and used as a rental house for those who were employed by the mines in its heyday. This house sat vacant for a couple years...I believe...before we acquired it. We have had it 8 years and as my hubby was a bachelor for 6 of those 8 years he did not take the time to fix anything up within the house until I came along...haha...lucky for him.

 

[cdaniels]

Whether you do a quick fix or not is completely up to you.The texture will be the same with the BIN and paint.It won't hide any of it.I'm pretty sure the ghosting is because of venting issues with the fireplace and stove.There are numerous articles online about ways to remedy the ghosting.Whatever you decide...I hope it turns out well and and you get results you can live with.Good luck to you.

 

[jsheridan]

Thanks MsKitty, You know I trust and respect my fellows here on the forum, but I respectfully disagree. They're not wrong. Had the ceiling been smooth, I would have taped it, and recommended as much to you. No big deal. But every job has to be approached from a practical standpoint. In this case the deal is reversed, the investment is big and the return is minuscule, and possibly a major blunder.

Considering paint is measured in mils, thousands of an inch, mils in the single digits, three coats of paint is not going to do anything to "smooth" the ceiling. The flat paint will not reflect light and the ceiling will have a more subdued look and the lack of reflection will help to mask any defects or irregular surfaces, of which textured ceiling have much.

I asked about the highway because I have a customer who lives near a major highway, uphill, and their house filters all the soot out of the air. They have no source of soot that can account for ghosting in one room and all the blackened edges of white rugs throughout where the carpet edge filters the soot out of the air sucked from under the baseboard. The ghosting in one room actually looks like an x-ray of the studs, the walls and angled ceilings are actually striped black. It's more than ghosting. I tried to bring what was going on with it to their attention, but they weren't interested. That's the room their daughter sleeps in, but they biatch about my smelling like a cigarette. You tell me about priorities. Good Luck.