SO much easyer to picture what you have with a real picture.
Sump pump is pushing water up into the bath tub. Eh?
Hey fellas. Dealing with another issue here in our house. We have two sump pumps in the basement, one in the front and one in the back. The one in the back is used continuously since that's what the sink and washer dump into for drainage. All of the plumbing is 1 1/2 inch. The sump pump pipe comes directly up to the ceiling of the basement, 90's off to the left and then Y's into the main drainage pipe. This pipe has a slight angle on it so water trickles to the left. About 5 feet to the left is the drain to the bath tub, which has a 45 up, 45 to make it horizontal again, followed by the trap and ultimately the drain. About 3 feet beyond the bath tub is the main outbound pipe where the toilets are hooked into for drainage, etc.
When the sump pump runs, it must be pushing a lot of pressure through that pipe. I hear the kitchen sink gurgling (which is on the right) as well as the bath tub gurgling and ultimately you see water in the bottom of the tub. I have some mixed thoughts as I'm not entirely sure what is optimal versus what is practical.
Option 1 - Install a dedicated line for the sump pump and Y it into the main line right at the main junction exiting the house. This is all well and good, but at this point the PVC is transitioning over to galvanized and it's smack dab against the wall. Plus, in order for me to Y it in PAST the tub, it's going to require a huge magnitude of work because there are several other junctions coming in at this point, all galvanized. Plus this area goes through a wall, making things a bit more difficult.
Option 2 - This was my initial thought. I began to wonder if I could make some sort of tub in between the 2x10 joists of the ceiling to hold the water. Then from there, based on gravity, it spills into the 1 1/2 inch outbound pipe and flows out accordingly. By doing this, I leave all current plumbing intact. The goal here is the sump pump would disperse all of the water in the pit to the chamber in between the joists. That way, due to the extra room it would gain from the suspended tank, it wouldn't be as pressurized to push through the drain pipe. Then, as I said, gravity takes over and it spills into the pipe exiting the house.
Option 3 - Check valves. I've never used a check valve, but I was asked why I wouldn't consider one. The kitchen sink isn't the issue, it just gurgles (despite the annoyance), but I wonder if I could put a check valve in the bath tub pipe to keep the water from coming up? Is that how check valves work, or am I anticipating using them in this instance in a completely incorrect manner?
Overall, I know option 1 would probably be the one that makes the most sense. Option 1 will however guarantee a huge magnitude of work along the way, which is what makes option 2 (or option 3 if it's applicable) slightly more attractive. That being said, here I am asking the experts. Thanks for your input fellas! :thumbsup:
When the sump pump runs, it must be pushing a lot of pressure through that pipe. I hear the kitchen sink gurgling (which is on the right) as well as the bath tub gurgling and ultimately you see water in the bottom of the tub. I have some mixed thoughts as I'm not entirely sure what is optimal versus what is practical.
Option 1 - Install a dedicated line for the sump pump and Y it into the main line right at the main junction exiting the house. This is all well and good, but at this point the PVC is transitioning over to galvanized and it's smack dab against the wall. Plus, in order for me to Y it in PAST the tub, it's going to require a huge magnitude of work because there are several other junctions coming in at this point, all galvanized. Plus this area goes through a wall, making things a bit more difficult.
Option 2 - This was my initial thought. I began to wonder if I could make some sort of tub in between the 2x10 joists of the ceiling to hold the water. Then from there, based on gravity, it spills into the 1 1/2 inch outbound pipe and flows out accordingly. By doing this, I leave all current plumbing intact. The goal here is the sump pump would disperse all of the water in the pit to the chamber in between the joists. That way, due to the extra room it would gain from the suspended tank, it wouldn't be as pressurized to push through the drain pipe. Then, as I said, gravity takes over and it spills into the pipe exiting the house.
Option 3 - Check valves. I've never used a check valve, but I was asked why I wouldn't consider one. The kitchen sink isn't the issue, it just gurgles (despite the annoyance), but I wonder if I could put a check valve in the bath tub pipe to keep the water from coming up? Is that how check valves work, or am I anticipating using them in this instance in a completely incorrect manner?
Overall, I know option 1 would probably be the one that makes the most sense. Option 1 will however guarantee a huge magnitude of work along the way, which is what makes option 2 (or option 3 if it's applicable) slightly more attractive. That being said, here I am asking the experts. Thanks for your input fellas! :thumbsup:
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
http://imgur.com/a/WZ8rC#1
Right where it transitions from PVC to galvanized, there's a copper pipe coming up on a 45. That's the bath tub drain. Some water from the sump pump always ends up going up that pipe due to the pressure.
You can also see a curved PVC piece just above the sump pump that is now capped. I have no idea exactly what that was, I assume the previous owner made that originally and when they had problems created the longer piece Y'ing into the main pipe further down.
Right where it transitions from PVC to galvanized, there's a copper pipe coming up on a 45. That's the bath tub drain. Some water from the sump pump always ends up going up that pipe due to the pressure.
You can also see a curved PVC piece just above the sump pump that is now capped. I have no idea exactly what that was, I assume the previous owner made that originally and when they had problems created the longer piece Y'ing into the main pipe further down.
Huh?????
Why is your sump pump dumping into your sanitary sewer? You sanitary sewer lines are DWV. That means drain, waste, vent. That means gravity flow, not pressurized flow.
Sump pumps usually just dump outdoors.
Why is your sump pump dumping into your sanitary sewer? You sanitary sewer lines are DWV. That means drain, waste, vent. That means gravity flow, not pressurized flow.
Sump pumps usually just dump outdoors.
jagans, I wish I knew. A lot of things about this house just make me wonder. I redid the bathroom upstairs a few months ago and found out there were no shut off valves for the water lines there. Pretty awesome. A lot of what I'm doing is trying to rationalize what the previous owner's train of thought was. I'm just not sure what to think of it.
The only thing I can think of is the fact that on the back of the house you have the driveway, deck, etc. There's quite a lot of "stuff" there until you actually get out to the yard. I suppose I could always drill a hole on the right side and run a pipe out there. Does it matter that the washer dumps into the sump pump as well? Would that still be considered sanitary to actually go out to a drain field of some sort?
The only thing I can think of is the fact that on the back of the house you have the driveway, deck, etc. There's quite a lot of "stuff" there until you actually get out to the yard. I suppose I could always drill a hole on the right side and run a pipe out there. Does it matter that the washer dumps into the sump pump as well? Would that still be considered sanitary to actually go out to a drain field of some sort?
Option 4: Run the sump pump discharge out independently to a dry well.
I'm assuming the ejector pump that serves the washing machine doesn't cause any of these issues?
I'm assuming the ejector pump that serves the washing machine doesn't cause any of these issues?
The washer is the primary issue here. Washer dumps into sump, sump pump eventually forces it up and out, and sure enough the sudsy washer water is what you see in the tub. It only pushes a little bit up, but still...Option 4: Run the sump pump discharge out independently to a dry well.
I'm assuming the ejector pump that serves the washing machine doesn't cause any of these issues?
Ah...got it. It's an ugly set up all around. Undersized drains, and inadequate venting.
I hear ya, man. I'm just doing what I can to work through the issues of it. I've seen some houses where in the basement, the outbound waste drain pipe is on the floor. This one, however, is at eye level when I'm standing down here. I guess since they knew they'd need a lift system for the sink, they figured using the sump pump made sense. Or... something like that?Ah...got it. It's an ugly set up all around.
Holy Cow
It sounds like the previous owners train of thought derailed a long time ago. By washer I guess you mean clothes washer? That is not suppose to dump into your sump pump. Do you have a Septic Tank or are you connected to a City Sewer. Some people dont like dumping detergent and bleach into their septic tank for fear of killing the bugs, but my whole neighborhood is on septic and evryones washer dump into their septic system here.
It sounds like the previous owners train of thought derailed a long time ago. By washer I guess you mean clothes washer? That is not suppose to dump into your sump pump. Do you have a Septic Tank or are you connected to a City Sewer. Some people dont like dumping detergent and bleach into their septic tank for fear of killing the bugs, but my whole neighborhood is on septic and evryones washer dump into their septic system here.
I don't like the idea of a check valve. It will be fouled with hair from the tub drain and not work right.
The tub should not tee in with a hard 90° like that. I think that is part of the problem. It should be either a sweep tee, or a 45° wye.
I think you also have a restriction or obstruction in the pipe after the tub. That's probably part of the reason water backs up.
Assuming it's even appropriate to pipe sump discharge to the DWV system, which I doubt, the correct solution is to repipe.
The tub should not tee in with a hard 90° like that. I think that is part of the problem. It should be either a sweep tee, or a 45° wye.
I think you also have a restriction or obstruction in the pipe after the tub. That's probably part of the reason water backs up.
Assuming it's even appropriate to pipe sump discharge to the DWV system, which I doubt, the correct solution is to repipe.
Well, I wouldn't doubt the derailment thought. We're the second owners of this house and we moved in back in January. They however lived here since it was built in 1958.It sounds like the previous owners train of thought derailed a long time ago. By washer I guess you mean clothes washer? That is not suppose to dump into your sump pump. Do you have a Septic Tank or are you connected to a City Sewer. Some people dont like dumping detergent and bleach into their septic tank for fear of killing the bugs, but my whole neighborhood is on septic and evryones washer dump into their septic system here.
Yes, I mean clothes washer. And we're on public sewer - no septic tank.
Washer
Give your wife break and move the washer up to the first floor, and pipe it to a laundry sink or a stand tube. Run the sump pump out the basement wall through a sleeve grouted into the wall. foam between the sleeve and the pipe.
judging by the improper use of fittings and unsupported pipe you may want to get a real plumber in there to straighten things out
Give your wife break and move the washer up to the first floor, and pipe it to a laundry sink or a stand tube. Run the sump pump out the basement wall through a sleeve grouted into the wall. foam between the sleeve and the pipe.
judging by the improper use of fittings and unsupported pipe you may want to get a real plumber in there to straighten things out
Yeah sometimes you just gotta rip crap out. We bought a foreclosure with a mix of corroded copper, galv, and illegal PVC supplies. Repiping was a lot of work, but it was The Right Thing To Do and we'll enjoy the benefits for for many years.Give your wife break
judging by the improper use of fittings and unsupported pipe you may want to get a real plumber in there to straighten things out
Re do
Actually,
It is often easier to start with a clean slate and draw a new propely designed and efficient system than to mess with existing crap that is all done as an afterthought. I have re-piped several houses in which the basements looked like they had upside down inside out french horns on the ceiling for supply lines. Learn the theory and stick to the code.
Actually,
It is often easier to start with a clean slate and draw a new propely designed and efficient system than to mess with existing crap that is all done as an afterthought. I have re-piped several houses in which the basements looked like they had upside down inside out french horns on the ceiling for supply lines. Learn the theory and stick to the code.
Might be onto something here. As I said, we have two sump pumps. The one up front hasn't been used since we've been here, but it's got an identical pit, identical pump, identical setup, etc as the rear pump. The only difference is the rear pump gets used heavily because it's used with the clothing washer, so it's constantly offloading that, hence my issues above.
I traced the pipe that comes from the front pump. It goes to an entirely different location on the far right side of the basement. Look at these images:
http://imgur.com/a/ThyT2
Think I can just hack into the pipe, add a Y, and add the rear sump pump to it? Would a clothing washer dumping into (what I assume) the pipe for the drain field be okay?
I traced the pipe that comes from the front pump. It goes to an entirely different location on the far right side of the basement. Look at these images:
http://imgur.com/a/ThyT2
Think I can just hack into the pipe, add a Y, and add the rear sump pump to it? Would a clothing washer dumping into (what I assume) the pipe for the drain field be okay?
You don't want solids like lint clogging up a buried drain field.
So if I'm understanding this properly, the optimal plan would be to have the washer drain right into the sewer line, and have the sump pump (including the sink down there) dump into the drain field. Eh?
Huh?????
The sink and the washing machine should be piped into the sanitary sewer system which you said was a city sewer system. They have to be properly trapped and vented. The sump pump basically receives rain water from around the footers, and can be pumped out of the basement, usually onto a slash block.
Your term drain field is applicable to a septic system. Its important to use the correct terms if you wish to be understood.
The sink and the washing machine should be piped into the sanitary sewer system which you said was a city sewer system. They have to be properly trapped and vented. The sump pump basically receives rain water from around the footers, and can be pumped out of the basement, usually onto a slash block.
Your term drain field is applicable to a septic system. Its important to use the correct terms if you wish to be understood.
I'm just using the terms that were presented to me during the inspection. This situation has several different angles, though. The washing machine and sink need to go into the sewer system. Okay, fine... I can get a hose extension and likely hook it up to the sewer pipe along the ceiling. But the sink on the other hand... I have to figure out some way to get the water from the sink to "lift" up to that point. I think that's why they just opted to put the sink/washer in the sump pump since it was just easier (even if it may not have been entirely correct). Hmm...The sink and the washing machine should be piped into the sanitary sewer system which you said was a city sewer system. They have to be properly trapped and vented. The sump pump basically receives rain water from around the footers, and can be pumped out of the basement, usually onto a slash block.
Your term drain field is applicable to a septic system. Its important to use the correct terms if you wish to be understood.
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