[revmuddswife]

Hi folks. Bought a century-old house that's had a little electrical work done to it, but it's a little half-assed. Safe, but not really 'good' - 1970's era Gould Pushmatic breakers, 3 prong outlets in the kitchen & bathrooms and other random boxes, but un-grounded 2 prong everywhere else. When they added wiring, they double-pinned the new circuits to existing breakers & circuits. Nothing trips under load, but . . I regard that whole panel like dormant volcano.

I would like to add basement outlets on new, separate breakers in a subpanel. I asked a couple of contractors, and they said because of city law and building codes, they're required to completely re-wire everything in the house that's not code, which is . . most of it. And, yes, they have identical handouts from the city confirming that.

I think I'm up for adding the subpanel and adding the outlets myself - it's not complex wiring. But I'm going to have to move at least 2 circuits to the sub to make room for the breaker to the sub on the main panel - and if I'm doing that, I might as well do the double-pinned breakers. But what's the appropriate way to splice 4-8 circuits with 4 feet of romex to reach the new subpanel and keep it safe and neat?

And some idjit installed a sump in the floor right underneath - the PVC pipe on the left is the outlet pipe.

 

[seharper]

Hi folks. Bought a century-old house that's had a little electrical work done to it, but it's a little half-assed. Safe, but not really 'good' - 1970's era Gould Pushmatic breakers, 3 prong outlets in the kitchen & bathrooms and other random boxes, but un-grounded 2 prong everywhere else. When they added wiring, they double-pinned the new circuits to existing breakers & circuits. Nothing trips under load, but . . I regard that whole panel like dormant volcano.

Well, PushMatic is a perfectly fine panel. Like Amiga or Betamax, it was an innovative design in a market that did not prioritize that. A few sites toss them in with FPE and Zinsco, that's wrong. Unfortunately breaker supply is now in the dubious hands of Connecticut Electric. I do my level best to avoid adding breakers to a Pushmatic panel.

On the other hand, if your panel has a main breaker and *thru-lugs*, that is very good news indeed, because we can pop off the thru lugs at full main-breaker amperage and take it all to the subpanel.

I would like to add basement outlets on new, separate breakers in a subpanel. I asked a couple of contractors, and they said because of city law and building codes, they're required to completely re-wire everything in the house that's not code, which is . . most of it. And, yes, they have identical handouts from the city confirming that.

They may misunderstand how grandfathering works. Grandfathering means parts of the system you do not disturb do not need to be upgraded. A Zinsco or FPE panel needs to be defenestrated with all due haste, for safety's sake alone! It is irresponsible to say "you must continue this dangerous panel in service, until you are willing to rewire the whole house".

The normal (outside that town's bubble) viewpoint is that you can replace a panel (not that you need to) and you don't even need to retrofit AFCI/GFCI breakers. You certainly don't need to rewire all the branch circuits.

I think I'm up for adding the subpanel and adding the outlets myself - it's not complex wiring. But I'm going to have to move at least 2 circuits to the sub to make room for the breaker to the sub on the main panel - and if I'm doing that, I might as well do the double-pinned breakers. But what's the appropriate way to splice 4-8 circuits with 4 feet of romex to reach the new subpanel and keep it safe and neat?

Well first, look and see if the panel has feedthru lugs - these would be unused lugs on the opposite end of the panel from the main breaker. Or some other obviously-approved way of attaching wires on the switched side of the main breaker. If it does, then let us know what the main breaker rating is and we'll advise the right wire to extend with. You're much better off doing that than paying Connecticut Electric $75 for a breaker that doesn't work.

Now as far as how to extend Romex circuits, my preference is to use a 4-11/16" square deep box (42 cubic inches) and run EMT metal conduit to the new panel. They are a good match, since box fill, conduit wire fill, and derate all work nicely with 4 circuits. (provided only one is a 3-wire circuit).

The EMT metal conduit handles grounds, so the Romex grounds can simply be terminated at the junction box and don't need to be dragged into the panel.

 

[revmuddswife]

Got a little time to take the cover off & investigate . . the more I understand this stuff, the more screwed up it looks.

No feedthru lugs. 100 amp service. Or are you looking for another rating?

 

[Oldmaster]

Looking at the panel there appears to be some issues. Several circuit breakers have 2 wires on them, some of the breaker screws are rusting or discolored which could indicate over heating. Some breakers are the wrong size for the conductor. I've seen several pushmatics that will not trip or reset. I'd change the panel.

 

[Missouri Bound]

If you upgraded to a 200 amp panel you wouldn't need the sub-panel.
You would have much more room and a chance to clean up the wiring a bit.
But I have seen much worse.

 

[longdrive]

Absolutely replace your main panel. You will have plenty of room to do what you want.