[CameronT21]

Thanks for any help/input. My main panel is out of space and I need to install a 50amp breaker for my EV charger. Rather than going through the hassle of installing a sub-panel I’d rather just install a hot tub type panel (Square D - HOME250SPA Homeline Spa Panel, Load Center With 50-Amp Enclosed Main Breaker, 2-Pole, Ground Fault Interrupt Amazon.com) that has its own breaker, connnecting it directly to the main panels bus bars.

I suspect this is not to code/approved but don’t really understand why?

Thanks for any advice or ideas!
Cameron

 

[chandler48]

To which breaker will you attach this disconnect since the main panel is full?

 

[Gcraay]

Considering that incorrectly installing an approved charging port for the EV could easily void warranties don’t take the chance. Consider this. Go through the hassle and get a pro or replace the EV battery. Last I saw, $27,000. That’s $27 g’s. $27 grand, 27 Grover Cleveland’s. You’ll probably get a tax write off anyway. While your at it, get a bigger main for future use. Might come in handy.

 

[dcwired]

You cannot double wire into lugs. No breaker space means a sub panel no other way less than a complete main panel replacement.

 

[C'est Moi]

What you are asking is not compliant. Imo, you need to either get an electrician out there or do it correctly. A sub panel does not mean you have sufficient power for the EV charger either. What size service and what is the calculated load. In most cases you will need someone to do the calculation for you.

 

[MTVhike]

Unless your main panel is a Homeline, I wouldn't get that, but get something compatible with your main panel.

 

[A Little Short]

Unless your main panel is a Homeline, I wouldn't get that, but get something compatible with your main panel.

The OP shouldn't do this period. But being a different brand than his panel makes no difference. You could connect any brand panel to another for a subpanel.

 

[Jim Port]

Connections are not made with the conductor directly to the bus bars. Feed through lugs would be one option, but many panels do not have them. A breaker is the more common method.

 

[seharper]

I need to install a 50amp breaker for my EV charger.

Actually, you don't need 50A, that's a common misconception. EV charging is actually pretty sophisticated, and you can dial the charge rate to whatever the house can support. You may even be able to share an existing circuit such as dryer, without buying any funny gadgets.

So we can definitely get you charging at level 2 without having to do unsafe/illegal crud like that.

Let's start with a photo of your breaker panel with device labels, and also tell us what kind of EV "charger" you have now. Also is your dryer a 3-prong or 4-prong socket?



Here, Technology Connections covers this in their video. I'll cue it up, but feel free to wind back to review.

 

[SW Dweller]

You do not understand why? How about a fire that destroys your home, or family members. If your vehicle was rated to carry 1000 pounds, would you drive it around all of the time carrying the 1000 pounds?
Depending on the age of your service you may not be able to carry the extra load for the EV. Electricians call them "load calculations" it's what compentant electricians do to prevent letting the magic out of the box. Before they install a new heavy load.

 

[afjes2015]

Do yourself a favor. You spent thousands of dollars on your electric vehicle - spend a couple more and have it done correctly by a professional and DON'T cut corners or do it incorrectly which may void any warranties of the vehicle.

 

[seharper]

Oh come on guys. OP's "first try at a solution" doesn't sound THAT bad. It's wrong and needs correcting, but it's an honest mistake and OP is only thinking about it because they don't see another way.

I think there are other way and it doesn't need to cost thousands.

Level 2 (240V) EV charging at home is a perfectly reasonable thing to want. "50A" as a default assumption is understandable and easily corrected. You can get level 2 charging going at almost any home, except my winter cottage where my service is 120V, but I can still do "level 1++" at 3kW, which is 75-120 miles a night.

 

[flyingron]

Connections are not made with the conductor directly to the bus bars. Feed through lugs would be one option, but many panels do not have them. A breaker is the more common method.

Feedthrus for branch circuits is not premitted. If you feed through to a subpanel, you need to make sure that the feeder conductors are sized to the feeder panel OCD ampacity.

 

[Jim Port]

Feedthrus for branch circuits is not premitted. If you feed through to a subpanel, you need to make sure that the feeder conductors are sized to the feeder panel OCD ampacity.

Correct, overcurrent protection would be needed. I was just trying to address the connection. I could have expanded more.

 

[hornetd]

You cannot double wire into lugs. No breaker space means a sub panel no other way less than a complete main panel replacement.

He didn't say he was going to put 2 conductors in the existing panel's main breaker line terminals did he?

Have you ever heard of the 10 foot tap rule. To do it without removing any breaker that is already installed he would have to obtain Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) feed through lugs that are listed for field installation. Immediately adjacent to the existing panel, or at most ten WIRE feet away, he would install the new 50 Ampere enclosed breaker. A set of conductors no longer than 10 feet from terminal to terminal would connect the busbar tap terminals of the Service Equipment panel to the line terminals of the 50 ampere enclosed breaker. The particular breaker that he is thinking of is probably more than he needs unless the changes to the GFCI rules now require GFCI protection for all receptacles in garages. From the enclosed breaker he would have to run the circuit to a 14-50R 120/240 volt grounding receptacle.

Tom Horne

 

[flyingron]

Well he said he was going to attach it to the "bus bars" which you can't do at all and that's what I addressed.

Yes, I'm aware of the tap rules. This is why I said sized appropriately.

 

[hornetd]

Well he said he was going to attach it to the "bus bars" which you can't do at all and that's what I addressed.

What he can do is attach it to the busbars using plug on sub feed lugs or feed through lugs. Since he doesn't want to install a feeder supplied panel the only one of those possibilities that would work would be installing feed through lugs to use as tap terminals. I didn't notice what manufacturer made his panel, if he ever said, but if he is motivated to do this without doing some dangerous jury rig then he can copy the panel's model number off of the panel's label and contact a supply house to find out if there are feed through lugs available for that panel. One way to get the additional breaker spaces he needs, and more that he will someday want, is to install a new Feed Through panel outside between the meter and the indoor panel. When the panel is in a finished space outdoors can be the easiest place to install an additional panel.

Tom Horne

 

[betelgeuse]

If you feed through to a subpanel, you need to make sure that the feeder conductors are sized to the feeder panel OCD ampacity.

If you're saying the conductor size must equal the size of the conductors feeding the main panel, you are mistaken.
The feeder tap rule. If you use conduit then this applies.
NEC 240.21(B)
(1) Taps Not over 3 m (10 ft) Long.
If the length of the tap conductors does not exceed 3 m (10 ft) and the tap conductors comply with all of the following:
(1) The ampacity of the tap conductors is
a. Not less than the combined calculated loads on the circuits supplied by the tap conductors, and
b. Not less than the rating of the equipment containing an overcurrent device(s) supplied by the tap conductors
or not less than the rating of the overcurrent protective device at the termination of the tap conductors.

 

[hornetd]

200 feet of unfused conductors would both the snot out of me.

Why would it matter were the meter is located. The magnetic field given off during a lightning strike would not favor the utility's Service Lateral over their Service Entry Conductors.

I would be getting surge protectors on both panels in a hurry.

Their is nothing wrong with that suggestion no matter how the utility power is run to your Service Equipment.