[Siubeer]

Opened up some drywall and found something that really concerns me.

These monkeys that used to live here removed this wall.

I'm quite concerned as it looks like it's a load bearing wall as you can see the joists overlap above the wall. There is really nothing holding up those joists besides two 2x4's laying flat.

Do I need to be concerned?

Plz help.

 

[sixeightten]

Is there a 2nd floor above that? Does any roof load bear on that? How big is the door?

 

[joecaption]

Looks like your right. Should have been a header there.

 

[Siubeer]

What a nightmare. I just found another wall that has been removed. Same issue.

There is a 2nd floor above. Opening is 5'.

The other opening is almost 8' only supported by end nailing into one 2x8 joist!

Omg how is this house still standing?

No fat chicks allowed until this is remedied. :0

 

[funfool]

To bad they hacked it, it needs a header. I wonder if you run a straight edge across like a 6' level, if would find any bowing in the center?
Reframe it would be pretty straight forward, build a couple temp 2x4 walls a foot or so back, then can remove the mess that is there and redo it.

Not sure on the sizing of the beam, would think if those are 2x8 floor joist. Could run one king and one jack on each end. (I prefer 2 jack)
Then 2, 2x8 with 7/16" osb in between to create a 4x8 header.
Would be 10 times better then what you have.

Could cut back the floor joist and slide the header up and make it flush with the ceiling, hang the joist off the header with hangers.

Takes care of the framing, all the electrical is going to be a little more tricky.

 

[Siubeer]

Thx so much Funf.

I was searching around to see if I could do what you mentioned about cutting back the joists and hanging them off the header. I really like that idea. More work but much cleaner result.

I'm going to make the headers from (2) 2x8's and (2) 2x4 jack studs on each end.

Thx again.

If u know where I can find more info about how to do this right. Plz fwd.

 

[Daniel Holzman]

Do a search on this forum for headers or similar words. This topic (installation of headers) has been discussed many times on this forum over the past few years, lots of suggestions on temporary support, design standards for headers, how to obtain a permit, proper support, flush headers, use of joist hangers etc. You may want to check in with your local building inspector regarding the required size for the header, there are different building codes in different areas, and the local inspector always has the last word.

 

[funfool]

I like to run a king stud all the way up the side of the header to the top.
Will be more nailing surface, or screwing, help keep the ends of header from twisting later.
Then you put 1 jack under the header, making a 4x4 post attaching the jack to the king.
Will leave the header siting on 1 1/2" jack stud and is fine.
If you have room, for door opening and such, a second jack will leave the header sitting on 3" of jack on each side.

With your 5' and 8' opening, 1 1/2" is fine, for larger headers and wider 16' openings, code here would require 2 jacks ... will beef it up, but if you do not have space to lose 3" of opening, would not lose sleep with your size openings.

with a king and jack will be fine and create a 4x4 post for it to sit on.
2 jacks and a king you create a 4x6 post for it to sit on, again will help reduce twisting as it dries and prevent drywall cracks later. But is over kill in your situation ... extra jack on both openings would cost about $10.

 

[Siubeer]

Great!

Turns out I'm just gonna put the header under the joists. It's not gonna help to make it all flush since we want to define the room and the headers will actually help.

The post that will hold the headers are made of (4) 2x4's for the 8' opening and (2) 2x4's for the 5' opening. On the other ends I'll have (2) jack studs and one more at the ends.

Hopefully get this all up tomorrow and post some pics.

 

[mae-ling]

also need support in the floor below and the walls below and whatever.
the 'point load' has to be carried down to footings

 

[joed]

I have never seen a 2x4 used as header especially at 8 feet long.

 

[Siubeer]

I have never seen a 2x4 used as header especially at 8 feet long.

Nor have I. I'm using 2x8's.

 

[frenchelectrican]

That something I have see it from time to time on either side of pond and some peoples NEVER understand what load bearing means at all.

So before you start run new 2X8 headers you will have to deal the floor part where you have in basement or crawl space and see how well it is builted if not then you will have to make a block or a post to take up the load but pay attetion to basement floor or crawlspace to make sure you have good footing below.

As other member mention use 6 foot level or use the laser light to see how much it bend down and I am not suprised if that did kick down at least 1/4 inch. some case more.

Now for electrical item when you have the ceiling / walls open up it is good time to take a close look see if those fomer dolts ran a hidden junctionbox if so that is a good time to address it now before you close up the wall.

If you have electrical related question just posted over electrical section one of us will answer your question on that.

Merci,
Marc

 

[joed]

Nor have I. I'm using 2x8's.

Misread your reply. I thought you were using 2x4 for headers. Now I see you are using them for posts.

 

[Gary in WA]

Double 2x8's may not be enough, bottom chart:http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_5_sec002_par021.htm

Gary

 

[Siubeer]

If in doubt, make it stout.

(2) 2x8's should be fine.

Under the main floor post is a large steel beam. The column for that beam is within a few feet of the point load.

Seeing that the house had been unsupported like this for a few years shows there is a good safety factor. Built in 1975. I would not be confident a mass produced home today could do this.

 

[Gary in WA]

Sorry, double 2x8 will only span 5'9" with a 10' joist breaking on it.

14' joist = 5' span. 18' joist = 4'5" header. These are minimum from that link I gave.

8' span = double 2x12's with only 10' joist bearing. Keep up on your H.O.Insurance...

Gary

 

[Siubeer]

Eff,

If you're right then my header is undersized. The joists hanging off it are 10' and the span is 7'8". I may just build the opening smaller to reduce the span.

Yes, insurance is topped up. :yes:

thx

 

[Siubeer]

Header is in place.

I jacked it in place and hammered 2x8 blocks that I tapered underneath the point loads to transfer the weight on to the steal beam in the basement.

The joists were sagging almost an inch in some locations. It was scary hearing all the creaking when I was jacking it up.

Though it all looks fine now. Thanks for all the advice. :thumbup:

Still no fat chicks upstairs though. :no:

 

[Siubeer]

Some more images.