DIY Home Improvement Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello, and thanks for the advice in advance. I've always wanted to solder my pipes but I lived in a top unit of an apt building and I opted for a plumber to do it then for liability purposes. (Thanks for that advice). I live in a single family home now and want to install a smart water shutoff valve.

I have a 1-1/4" water main and I want to install the Phyn Plus in line. 4 questions:
1) Do you think it's ok for a DIYer to do this? I consider myself an advanced DIYer.
2) I was thinking of using a MAP torch vs propane because the pipes/fittings are larger and will take less time. I'm planning on adding a bypass valve too so i'll be soldering at least 8 connections.
3) They say to avoid elbows as much as possible that will decrease the water pressure, but will adding 2 - 90 degree large-radius elbows affect it much?
4) I don't have much clearance to cut the pipe from the wall, but i may be able to use a traditional pipe cutter, but if not, is a hacksaw ok? I've read because these pipes are larger that a hacksaw would be ok, whereas with smaller pipes, they will deform the pipe where it is cut. The pipes have insulation around them so there is some clearance.

Thanks a lot!
Jake
 

·
DIY Veteran
Joined
·
622 Posts
I can't answer all your questions but you can use a hack saw with a 24TPI(Teeth Per Inch)blade a 32TPI might load up and a 18TPI might be too coarse. You may need a smooth file to clean up the pipe after hack sawing. A sawzall would work and save some elbow grease but ONLY if you're very experienced with one. It can catch and bounce then dent the pipe which you don't want to happen especially in close quarters. Log radius elbow will be fine especially with a 1-1/4" main. Have you sweat soldered before? If not make sure you clean the pipes and fittings and use flux.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
393 Posts
A hacksaw will be fine, even on small diameter pipe. In fact, a hacksaw will probably deform the pipe less than a cutter, as a cutter always deforms copper pipe inward. Even after reaming, there's still some deformation. using a hacksaw will leave burrs that will need to be reamed. As LS-6 pointed out, use a finer tooth blade. If the throat (gap between the saw teeth) is close to the thickness of the wall of the tubing, it may tend to hang up while sawing. Incidentally, a pencil reamer like this is my preference for reaming copper tubing: https://www.amazon.com/HAUTMEC-Copp...?keywords=pencil+reamer&qid=1582060056&sr=8-8
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
628 Posts
The questions that you are asking tells me that you have never done any plumbing. Even with a little experience soldering pipe, or soldering anything really, you would not be asking those questions.

Let me ask you a question. "On what side of the pipe do you apply heat before you touch the solder"?


I suggest that you start on some smaller pipe. Make something and see if it will hold water or air. How do you plan on getting the water out of the pipe before soldering? Fine if you have a shut off valve after the pipe enters the structure.


1. No one here knows your abilities or experience. No one knows how you look at something like this to figure out what needs to be done in what order.
2. MAP gas burns hotter than propane. You are not concerned with the amount of time it takes. It takes what it takes. You cannot rush this.
3. Who is "they"? What experience do "they" have? Has anyone of them seen your plumbing pipes? (This is one the questions that gives me the impression that you have not done any plumbing of anything. Air or water.)
4. There are many way to cut copper pipe. But the cut is not the really important task. Cleaning the joint is more important. Solder will not stick to copper that is not free of contaminants. Shine the pipe to a bright shiny finish, apply flux and then put the two pieces together. Then solder the connection.


Practice on something else first. Even electrical wires that have been twisted together. This will give you experience on the amount of time it takes and the steps required to prep the pipe before any soldering can be done. And no, I am not a plumber, but I know how to plumb supply and waste lines, and solder a few different types of metal.
 

·
Master General ReEngineer
Joined
·
9,881 Posts
I don't have much clearance to cut the pipe from the wall, but
Ayuh,..... Listen to Andy,......

My concern with yer project is, I question whether you can stop Any water from comin' to yer joint, while yer tryin' to solder a fittin',.......

If even a couple of drops of water are inside the pipe, the solder won't sweat,......

With smaller pipe, white bread packed, Tight into it will hold back any water, long enough to sweat the fittin',.....
Once done, the bread dissolves, 'n is passed out through a facet downstream of the joint, so the aireator needs to be removed from the facet 1st,.....

1, 1/4" pipe is Big to be packin' with white bread,.....

This spot close to the wall,..??
Why is there no room,..??
Can you do what you wanta do, abit downstream, Easier,..??
Is there a sweat fittin' near, that you can heat, 'n pull apart,..??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
For cutting, I have a sawzall, but i might even use an oscillating tool since it might be easier to control.


Yes I have a shut-off valve after the pipe enters the structure.

Correct, i have not soldered pipes before, but you gotta start somewhere! I will be practicing before I do it.


There isn't a lot of room because the pipe runs along the wall. I'll definitely look to see if there is another spot to do it.


Thank you for the tips! I appreciate it.
 

·
Remodel and New Build GC
Joined
·
9,899 Posts
Good advice above....just a comment..

You may be able to sweat 1 1/4 with Mapp.... but it can be difficult...especially for a beginner.

You may want acertylene....which likely incurs calling a plumber.... unless you have acetylene,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
393 Posts
Good advice above....just a comment..

You may be able to sweat 1 1/4 with Mapp.... but it can be difficult...especially for a beginner.

You may want acertylene....which likely incurs calling a plumber.... unless you have acetylene,
That's a good point. I've sweated 1" copper fittings with a handheld MAPP (MAPP replacement actually, true MAPP gas is no longer manufactured) torch, and I was wishing I had juuust a little more heat. I think that sweating 1-1/4" fittings might be pushing it a little. Not saying it can't be done ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Hello, and thanks for the advice in advance. I've always wanted to solder my pipes but I lived in a top unit of an apt building and I opted for a plumber to do it then for liability purposes. (Thanks for that advice). I live in a single family home now and want to install a smart water shutoff valve.

I have a 1-1/4" water main and I want to install the Phyn Plus in line. 4 questions:
1) Do you think it's ok for a DIYer to do this? I consider myself an advanced DIYer.
2) I was thinking of using a MAP torch vs propane because the pipes/fittings are larger and will take less time. I'm planning on adding a bypass valve too so i'll be soldering at least 8 connections.
3) They say to avoid elbows as much as possible that will decrease the water pressure, but will adding 2 - 90 degree large-radius elbows affect it much?
4) I don't have much clearance to cut the pipe from the wall, but i may be able to use a traditional pipe cutter, but if not, is a hacksaw ok? I've read because these pipes are larger that a hacksaw would be ok, whereas with smaller pipes, they will deform the pipe where it is cut. The pipes have insulation around them so there is some clearance.

Thanks a lot!
Jake
With your experiance, I would suggest going ProPress, you can rent the battery operated tool from the hardware store. Very easy to use and you won't have to worry about overheating or burning things up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
393 Posts
With your experiance, I would suggest going ProPress, you can rent the battery operated tool from the hardware store. Very easy to use and you won't have to worry about overheating or burning things up.
That's assuming that BigEhead can: 1) Get the right 1-1/4 Pro-Press fittings (looking at the Phyn website looks like he heads to install 2 female threaded couplers) and 2) Rent a propress tool with 1-1/4 dies. If the answer to both of those is "yes", that might be a pretty good solution.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,417 Posts
I’d practice quite a bit before attempting this. Soldering in a tight spot where only some of the joint is in the open can be difficult.
You wouldn’t want to cut the pipe and then realize you can’t get the joint sealed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
That's assuming that BigEhead can: 1) Get the right 1-1/4 Pro-Press fittings (looking at the Phyn website looks like he heads to install 2 female threaded couplers) and 2) Rent a propress tool with 1-1/4 dies. If the answer to both of those is "yes", that might be a pretty good solution.

Just FYI: Viega makes almost all the fittings you need for plumbing. Here is a link to some of them Grainger sells.
https://www.grainger.com/category/plumbing/pipe-tubing-and-fittings/tube-fittings/press-tube-fittings?brandName=VIEGA+PROPRESS&filters=brandName
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I wanted to thank you guys for your help. I thought i had 1-1/4 pipes, but I have 1" pipes. I was able to install the Phyn and solder 1" ball valves. It's working great. Thanks again for your advice.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top