[HOOV]

So I put a posting on a few weeks ago explaining that I was considering putting a heat pump or split system in my home. I thought this was going to be a great place to get some great information and help on how to do it yourself. What I got was a bunch of people look at the post and not reply. The ones who did reply were likely in the business for a while and basicly told me to hire someone to do it for me. Not exactly the type of response I thought I would get from this chatroom.

Frustrated.

 

[Yoyizit]

basicly told me to hire someone to do it for me.
Because it might not be a DIY task?


We have only lived in this home one summer and thats enough for me. The air just doesnt curculate and is just becomes very uncomfortable.
Anyway, I had a guy come out and take a look and he gave me a bid of 4900. This was a friend of a friend doing this under the table. I think its a great price but I can't shake the thought of doing it my self. I would love to try it and learn about the process. I have extensive knowledge of ac as I'm an automotive technician but don't know if this is something I can tackle.
Is the risk worth $4900 to you? The risk of him not doing it right may not be zero.

I thought I'd let you guys know my thoughts and see what you think. The guy that came out was going with a 80% furnace and 14 sear ac unit. My home is a split level 2300 square foot.
I'd do a dot plot to check the price.
.........a...bcd...e.........f
$0....1.....2.....3.....4.....5
........^relative price^

Bids a and f are probably outliers, and bcd seems to be the true price of doing your job in your zip code in April, 2009.


Ive been looking on line and have found lots of goodman complete kits for around 2000. I'm not sure what quality those are.
Do an Internet search with Goodman and
"class action" or other terms like complaint, "service bulletin", costly, unreliable, fire, touchy, callbacks, etc.


Could I get into legal trouble by doing this myself??
Check with your county.

I've seen "hire a professional" on a lot of DIY sites.
If you choose to do it yourself anyway, I'd try to advise you of what to watch out for.
Then, if you have all the facts in front of you you can make a "rational " decision,
either to do it yourself or
hire someone or
do some other option (window A/Cs, e.g., or fans).

You seem to be saying that his labor is worth $2900.
Estimate how long it will take you to do this job.
If you do yourself what is your guess at the chance that it won't work, or
that you will wreck your $2k "investment" or
that you or others will be injured?
A lot of times when you go through all the options and calc. the risks the best choice becomes clear.

 

[beenthere]

Apparently, you have a problem understanding what you read.

I told you:

Still need a tech to do start up.

Stationary A/C is section 608. Your 609 doesn't cover it.

Doesn't say hire a pro to install it for you. Just tells you, you will still need one.

The post after that. Didn't say hire anyone either. Just warned you about warranty issues.

If you can't understand what we type in a post.

How could we ever help you install your own system over the internet. By typing instructions.

good luck

 

[Scuba_Dave]

This is the other post from your prior thread

Goodman is the number one selling brand in the us. They have the strongest warrenty in the busness. If you buy any resuidental unit online (any brand) You will loose all warrentys. The manufactures keep very good records of where there systens are sold. Best to let a tech do this for you.

One reason not many replies, not a big DIY item
I'm pretty sure you need a tech with the right tools to do the start-up/freon etc. Many will not touch an installation by a HO. Or they will charge a hefty price & not warranty anything

Maybe your friend of a friend can buy the unit to keep the warranty
Then you can install it & he can do the final setup
I guess it depends upon how good a friend of a friend he is?
But I imagine his price will go up

 

[Yamvmax]

goodman units carry the warranty from date of purchase from an authorized seller. Does not matter who buys it.

 

[Home Air Direct]

goodman units carry the warranty from date of purchase from an authorized seller. Does not matter who buys it.

Yamvmax is correct. The Goodman site and Goodman dealers will tell you different, but the reality is that the online sellers are big customers of Goodman and will back the warranty, just like any other reseller, though it can get a little sticky at times.

All the other answers above are correct too. The "Whole" project is not DIY, for safety and legal reasons, but that does not keep you from performing many of the installation steps your self.

I have an online HVAC resale presence and I always marvel at the homeowners who have made up their minds that they are going to do it themselves, either by choice or financial need. A high end contractor has come out and quoted them a replacement and has knocked the wind out of their sails. Some times because of obscene profit attachment and in some cases, because the retrofit is complicated and requires more than the average HO is able to see and understand. Either way, they are now determined to go DIY.

The next step is always the same. They find bascially the same equipment online for a price that they can live with (though often, they are not factoring in many of the pieces and parts that need to be added). They are set and ready to go...........

This is the point where they LOSE THEIR MINDS! They now, in some cases have several thousand dollars available to secure competent, insured contractor to complete the project, but for some reason they are so hell bent on saving even more, that common sense flys out the window. Why, if you have cut out the profit of the reselling contractor, would you not pay a pro his prevailing wage to insure that your savings are sound?

DIY'ers, listen to me......DIY HVAC is only a good idea to a point. DIY can come in the form of being your own general contractor and hiring qualified subs to complete work that you are NOT qualified to do. There is no shame in that. (Is there some secret society of DIY that will denounce you?) Be DIY SMART!

Ok, I'm done ranting

 

[Aggie67]

I'm a die-hard DIY'er. Steel, concrete, framing, plumbing, 120v and lower electrical, drywall, painting, tile, roofing, decks, asbestos removal, jacking a house, you name it. I've installed ductwork, too. But I know how what goes into making a properly brazed joint, and what goes into evacuating refrigerant and charging it. Brazing ain't soldering. That is that last thing you want to tackle if you've never done it. What will happen is you'll run your line sets, and then screw up the brazed joints to the point where you'll start having to cut out the copper to get clean metal. And if you don't purge with nitrogen, all that soot you're producing will make it into the line, and then when you run it you'll shorten the life the compressor.

What I know I can do: size everything, install the duct, the unit, set the outside unit, pull the line sets.

What I know I should call my refrigeration tech buddy for: braze the joints, charge it, and start it up.

 

[Yamvmax]

What I know I can do: size everything, install the duct, the unit, set the outside unit, pull the line sets.

What I know I should call my refrigeration tech buddy for: braze the joints, charge it, and start it up.

Agreed. I hired a pro to charge and start erup.

 

[biggles]

to install it with only an adjustable wrench you can get a pre charged condenser...line set,and evaporator then just slam the rotor locks down and your good to go on the refrigeration side.then it is wiring the 208 out to the condenser then to the air handler then wire the stat in

 

[kenmac]

gave a guy a price this week for a complete change out condensor, faf, line set, A coil. He said but, I can get everything that you priced me off the net. for $xxx & you are charging $XXXX. I told him to buy it off the net & install it himself.. His answer,,,I may buy off the net,,, can I pay you to show me how to install:huh:

 

[COLDIRON]

Look at it this way hoov

Hoov, you state you are a Auto Mechanic lets look at the question like this.

If someone asked about removing and installing an engine in a car complete DIY I can imagine what your answer would be.

On the other hand if someone asked about changing the oil and air cleaner DIY you would have another answer for them.

Summary, Installing an engine is not DIY.

Installing complete heat pump/ split system is not DIY.
Changing air filters cleaning coils, oiling motors is DIY.

I hope you understand what we are all trying to tell you. Good luck which ever way you go.

40 year HVAC

 

[kenmac]

Very hard to tell someone they can do a complete install without knowing them. Do you have all the equipment that this would require ?? This would be a start

 

[Aggie67]

gave a guy a price this week for a complete change out condensor, faf, line set, A coil. He said but, I can get everything that you priced me off the net. for $xxx & you are charging $XXXX. I told him to buy it off the net & install it himself.. His answer,,,I may buy off the net,,, can I pay you to show to do the install:huh:

The trades guys here are going to hate me even more, but...

That mindset is now prevalent in my area. I have clients that pay me to come out and show them the ropes for $80 an hour. I usually stay a half day and work along side them, and do phone consults and spot visits. But in all cases, if it's electrical or refrigeration or they don't own fall protection equipment, I refer them to some good folks. I can't take the liability.

I've actually got a consult to go to tomorrow morning. Big deck job. I did the permit drawings for them, walked them through the permit and zoning process, worked up a priced materials list down to the nut and bolt, drew up a job area stockpile plan, etc, and they lean on me when they get stuck or have a question.

I did the same thing 2 weeks ago for plumber who went after a big Fed job ($250k). Except he knows what he's doing. He just needed help doing the material take off and labor counts. He was awarded the job yesterday. They knocked the low bidder and high bidder out, and he had the winning bid.

 

[beenthere]

Guessing thats a PW job.

Post back 12 months after that job is done.
And tell us if he made enough money.

PW jobs are the easiest ones there are to lose your butt on.

 

[COLDIRON]

Horn blowing

The trades guys here are going to hate me even more, but...

That mindset is now prevalent in my area. I have clients that pay me to come out and show them the ropes for $80 an hour. I usually stay a half day and work along side them, and do phone consults and spot visits. But in all cases, if it's electrical or refrigeration or they don't own fall protection equipment, I refer them to some good folks. I can't take the liability.

I've actually got a consult to go to tomorrow morning. Big deck job. I did the permit drawings for them, walked them through the permit and zoning process, worked up a priced materials list down to the nut and bolt, drew up a job area stockpile plan, etc, and they lean on me when they get stuck or have a question.

I did the same thing 2 weeks ago for plumber who went after a big Fed job ($250k). Except he knows what he's doing. He just needed help doing the material take off and labor counts. He was awarded the job yesterday. They knocked the low bidder and high bidder out, and he had the winning bid.

From what I read you are in the wrong topic you should probably be in Construction.
You really are not answering any DIY answers just telling us about your own interests.
I don't think trades guys hate you by your posts you are just annoying.

 

[Scuba_Dave]

gave a guy a price this week for a complete change out condensor, faf, line set, A coil. He said but, I can get everything that you priced me off the net. for $xxx & you are charging $XXXX. I told him to buy it off the net & install it himself.. His answer,,,I may buy off the net,,, can I pay you to show me how to install:huh:

Did you say Yes I can, no warranty

and the price is $XXXXX :laughing:

 

[kenmac]

Yes I did. I told him he would have the same $ tied up in the job as he would if I supplied the equipment & installed. He said I can't believe you are getting that much $ for just the labor. I told him to purchase his own installiation equipment , tools ,etc, & install it himself.. Then he can pay me ( of course, I won't do it :no to straighten out his mess

 

[COLDIRON]

Warranty

There are two types of warranty's we can issue the DIYER.

1. The egg timer warranty.

2. The break in half warranty, if it breaks in half he gets to keep both half's.

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

[Home Air Direct]

The trades guys here are going to hate me even more, but...

That mindset is now prevalent in my area. I have clients that pay me to come out and show them the ropes for $80 an hour. I usually stay a half day and work along side them, and do phone consults and spot visits.

I have a question for the "Trade Guys". If a homeowner assumes responsibility, and requests, or would pay $80 per hour for consult and guidance, why would you not do it? (I am using $80 per hour from above, your rate will vary depending on area). I mean, if your normal rate were $80 and you spent 1/2 day doing consult, besides parts mark-up, what is the difference between this service and chasing bad igniters and run caps?

Also, would this not be the ultimate sales call to solicit your services as the start-up contractor, which would make you first in line for any service when that time comes around? (remember, I said "IF" the HO assumes responsibility)

I understand that it is not in your nature or business plan to forfeit equipment profit, but the fact is, there is a certain population who is going to buy direct. This is a growing trend (small, but growing) Why not take this labor $$?

I am open to all answers (and trust me, I have worked hand in hand with contractors for years and have heard every reason.)

Thanks

 

[Scuba_Dave]

Not in the trades, but
I think there is a big difference between somone who knows what they are doing, but may need some assistance
And the person that wants to hire you to "train" them how to do something
Working in IT I could do a job in "x" hours
Training a newbie it was usually "2x" depending upon the abilities

So in this HVAC case I think any $$ saved on equipment would be chewed up in how long it would take to train the guy