DIY Home Improvement Forum banner

41 - 50 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,486 Posts
A question - if you install a furnace and don't know how to fix it, what will you do if you have problems?

You'll probably have no warranty. Even with warranty through the supplier, you need to know how to troubleshoot.

What about setup? Fuel pressure and airflow need to be checked and adjusted if required.

It sounds like you don't have knowledge of how this stuff works and can't identify basic parts (transformer?).

Spend a few months learning the theory or call a professional to do the job.

----------
I think its the blower and the transformer you need to check. They may all be compatible now but in the past they were not.
All gas furnaces out there 40k and up have sufficient blower capacity for a 2 tons of cooling in a bungalow.

They're a/c ready when it comes to electrical too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,456 Posts
The heating demand here at 6000 feet in Wyoming is worse than Chicago. I calculated the ROI for a high efficiency furnace for my 1900 sq. ft. house, based on the gas prices 8 years ago, which were 2.4 times higher than they are now, and determined it wasn't worth it to me. Just sayin'.

Sure, the gas prices could double or triple in the next 10 years, but then again, they could stay flat, or drop even further than the 60% drop over the last 10 years (or the 80% drop from 15 years ago).

I encourage the OP to take a look at the historical price chart I linked to, make a guess on the high side of where the prices will go over the time anticipated in the house (or the lifespan of the furnace), and calculate the difference in gas cost and see if it's likely to be worth it.

If it is worth it monetarily, there's still the matter of finding a high-effieciency furnace that will fit in the space without major modifications. The secondary heat exchanger necessitates a unit that is somewhat bigger than many of the 80% models.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,486 Posts
The secondary heat exchanger necessitates a unit that is somewhat bigger than many of the 80% models.
No, these days the dimensions are pretty much the same. They're all short to accommodate today's large evap coils.

80%ers are obsolete in any climate that has real winters but you americans still have them.

In the typical basement installation with access to run pipes to exterior wall, there is no reason to put in a non-condensing furnace.

The purchase price difference is not very high, less than many people waste on vacations, tv, alcohol/restaurants every year.

Fracking shale is not very cost effective long term (many say it's fueled by debt - not profitable) so unlikely gas prices won't rise unless there's a collapse in demand due to a depression. The price forecasts, i would not trust.
 
  • Like
Reactions: raylo32

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,456 Posts
Fracking shale is not very cost effective long term (many say it's fueled by debt - not profitable)
I don't know where you got your information, but fracking is the primary reason gas prices are as low as they are, because it is such a cost-effective way to produce natural gas. It's a long way from being exhausted, too.

McKinsey, in their North American Gas Outlook to 2030, have noted how shale may dip the price a little:

“Based on these anticipated supply and demand drivers, we expect to see North American gas prices remain stable in the medium term. However, as supply from shale resources, particularly from associated gas, continues to grow, prices should decline slightly, to roughly $2.50 per million British thermal units, and remain at that point for the long term. At these prices, we anticipate that North America will be able to meet 25-plus years of demand.”
Source
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,486 Posts
I don't know where you got your information, but fracking is the primary reason gas prices are as low as they are, because it is such a cost-effective way to produce natural gas. It's a long way from being exhausted, too.

Source
There's a lot of misinformation with respect to fracking - it's not the miracle it's been promoted to be, production can't be maintained at today's prices and has been fueled by debt. The companies are not profitable long term, prices will have to rise.

Having shale gas is a really dumb reason to get a crappy mid efficiency furnace. The rationalizations are ridiculous.

If you're interested in the problems with fracking beyond what i've stated here, start a topic in the off topic forum.
 
  • Like
Reactions: raylo32

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,575 Posts
I self installed one of these about... I don't know, 8 years ago? I got mine at Northern Tool but it seems they don't carry them anymore. But Home Depot does. These are Winchester brand which is just rebranded York/Johnson Controls. They carry mid and high efficiency units in all the common sizes in both single speed and 2-stage. These are really good quality, IMO.

This is an 80k 17" wide unit and as my original furnace was also 17" I already had a transition to mate up to the 20" wide plenum. As noted above these new furnaces are shorter. I went to a local sheet metal shop and had a simple rectangular transition to fill that extra gap.

IMO it is worth the extra cost to do a high efficiency unit and also to do a 2 stage. Much more comfortable that way. Just make sure to fully understand and follow the venting code. I also installed a condensate drain in the air intake pipe (you can install these furnaces 1-pipe and get intake air inside or 2-pipe and get intake air outside). Not sure it was necessary and I have never seen any water in it, but the manual called for it so I put one in. It really was trivial to connect that up to the normal furnace condensate drain that I plumbed to the existing air conditioning condensate drain, which was also trivial.

If you do this project, listen to BeenThere, Yuri, and others. They can help a lot.


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Winchester-80-000-BTU-96-2-Stage-Variable-Speed-Multi-Positional-Gas-Furnace-TM9V080B12MP12/313931468
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,060 Posts
Discussion Starter #48 (Edited)
thanx raylo. but a high efficiency, especially at that price, is just out of the question.
first, the cost, and then the roi = 30 years to break even ? i would be surprised if i am in this house 5 years from now, for various reasons. in fact, i have started purging some possessions for the anticipated move .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,575 Posts
They also have mid efficiency single speed units.

thanx raylo. but a high efficiency, especially at that price, is just out of the question.
first, the cost, and then the roi = 30 years to break even ? i would be surprised if i am in this house 5 years from now, for various reasons.
 
41 - 50 of 50 Posts
Top