[sofakng]

I've purchased a relay/smart outlet (Qubino Flush 1) and it's typically installed inside an existing electrical box to make any outlet/circuit become Z-Wave compatible.

However, the device appears to only be rated for 110V @ 10A. The manual specifies the following:

Electrical installation must be protected by directly associated overcurrent protection fuse 10A, gG or Time lag T, rated breaking capacity 1500A (ESKA 522.727) must be used according to wiring diagram to achieve appropriate overload protection of the device. The fuse must be installed in fuse holder type: Adels contact 503Si/1 DS according to the standard IEC60669-2-1.

The circuit I'm planning to use it on is 12 AWG/THHN wire protected by a 20A GFCI/CAFCI breaker. I thought maybe it would be simple as finding a new 10A GFCI/CAFCI breaker but it doesn't look they sell them for Square D QO panels.

What's the easiest way for me to add this protection/fuse? Can I add something in the service panel (sub-panel)? The electrical box where this is going to be installed has very little room.

(I'm willing to bet that almost nobody follow these precautions with a homeowner/diy product like this but I want to make sure it's as safe as possible!)

 

[surferdude2]

One way to do that would be to use one of the plug fuse devices that have been around for decades... UL approved but might be somewhat of a kludge. Just offering it FYI.

Plug fuse protection

 

[Missouri Bound]

I thought maybe it would be simple as finding a new 10A GFCI/CAFCI breaker but it doesn't look they sell them for Square D QO panels.

)

Go to an electrical supply house and have them order you one. Forget about the big box stores or hardware stores.

 

[surferdude2]

My local electric supply has them... probably your's does too.

QO110 breaker

 

[Joeywhat]

Have you looked to see if there is a similar product designed for the US market? That seems to be focused for markets where 240v is the norm, where individual circuits are under the 15-20 amps that is normal for the US.

It seems counter intuitive to install a device that cuts your circuit amps by 33-50%. I would imagine there is something available designed for typical US 15 amp circuits.

 

[sofakng]

Thanks as always for the help everybody.

The reason I chose this device was because it supports a temperature sensor but you're correct that I believe it was designed primarily for the European market.

Also, I do see 10A breakers for my panel but I need GFCI protection as well so I think 15A breakers are the smallest.

Regardless, when you install any kind of electrical outlet, it should match the circuit breaker, right? For example, if you have a 20A breaker then you NEED a 20A electrical outlet?

When is it OK to use a smaller rating? For example, most devices you plug into an outlet are not rated for 20A, etc...

 

[sofakng]

EDIT: Can I simply use an 10A in-line fuse to be safe?

 

[betelgeuse]

EDIT: Can I simply use an 10A in-line fuse to be safe?

Yes you can

 

[sofakng]

Thanks very much.

Also, just to make sure ... do I really even need a fuse?

The pool heater is the only device on the circuit and it's rated at 115v @ 2a max.

The outlet is rated for 20A and is using 12 AWG THHN to a 20A GFCI+CAFCI breaker.

The only thing I'm adding is the relay but because it's rated for 10A and my circuit breaker is 20A I thought I needed the extra protection? I just want to make sure I'm not over complicating this.

 

[seharper]

I've purchased a relay/smart outlet (Qubino Flush 1) and it's typically installed inside an existing electrical box to make any outlet/circuit become Z-Wave compatible.

However, the device appears to only be rated for 110V @ 10A.

Because it's for Australia, mate! Most of your circuits are 10A fused, just put it on one of those, pop a Folgers and put shrimp on the barbie!

It even fits an Australian junction box. Which is a problem.

The circuit I'm planning to use it on is 12 AWG/THHN wire protected by a 20A GFCI/CAFCI breaker. I thought maybe it would be simple as finding a new 10A GFCI/CAFCI breaker

Oh, you don't want that... you think you do, but you don't.

That'll make the circuit next to useless for much else.

but it doesn't look they sell them for Square D QO panels.

At least you have a quality panel. QO is the only consumer grade Home Depot sourceable panel that is actually DC rated up to 48V (110V for some breakers), if you ever need that.

What's the easiest way for me to add this protection/fuse? Can I add something in the service panel (sub-panel)? The electrical box where this is going to be installed has very little room.

Unfortunately, that has to go back where it belongs, and it's time for a deeper search for the right product. North America (down to Colombia and even Brazil) is a huge market, somebody's going after it.

For additional space in junction boxes, they make box extenders. I'm fond of the Legrand Wiremold Surface Conduit Starter Box (you don't have to actually use any surface conduit lol).

(I'm willing to bet that almost nobody follow these precautions with a homeowner/diy product like this but I want to make sure it's as safe as possible!)

Are you kidding? It's mandatory.

You aren't one of those low voltage electronics types whose projects are a splash of wires and breadboards all over a desktop, are you? Coz mains wiring isn't like that, quality of work and fit/finish practically defines the craft. NEC 110.12 in the USA. No kludges allowed.

So yeah, no Aussie switches in US boxes!

Heck an Aussie thing (and especially a Chinese thing) instantly violates NEC 110.2.

The reason I chose this device was because it supports a temperature sensor but you're correct that I believe it was designed primarily for the European market.

I would say AussNZie, because 10A breakers are not a thing in Europe.

Regardless, when you install any kind of electrical outlet, it should match the circuit breaker, right? For example, if you have a 20A breaker then you NEED a 20A electrical outlet?

When is it OK to use a smaller rating? For example, most devices you plug into an outlet are not rated for 20A, etc...

Yes, and that's called out in NEC 210.21. The receptacles must always match the breakers. With two notable exceptions:

- There are dozens of NEMA connectors which must all fit (or refuse to fit) in a limited number of possible keyings. As such, NEMA won't define a 40A receptacle/plug. Therefore 40A circuits use the 50A recep/plug.

- UL requires all 15A receptacles to have innards rated for 20A. NEMA also allows 20A receps to be keyed to accept 15A plugs also. In harmony with all that, NEC allows 15A receptacles on 20A circuits if and only if there are 2 or more outlets on the circuit.

By the way, the 15A/20A rules are identical in 240V. So you can hook up a 240V/20A circuit and put (multiple) 240V/15A sockets on it, etc.

 

[sofakng]

Thanks so much for the great advice. I'll definitely return it and look for a different product.

I'll probably also try to swap the breaker for a 15A GFCI+CAFCI instead of 20A. That way I can use a 15A rated outlet/relay. The pool heater (110v @ 2a) is the only device that is plugged into it. It's next to the pool (different circuit from pump) so I don't plan to ever use the circuit for anything else.

 

[Shadow99]

The pool heater is the only device on the circuit and it's rated at 115v @ 2a max.

Is this a pool for a snail ? :vs_worry:

 

[sofakng]

Haha. The pool pump is on a separate circuit. The circuit/outlet I'm trying to automate is only for the pool heater which runs off natural gas. However, it needs electric for the ignition and to power on/off.

 

[Missouri Bound]

What kind of pool heater requires so little amperage?

 

[Missouri Bound]

Haha. The pool pump is on a separate circuit. The circuit/outlet I'm trying to automate is only for the pool heater which runs off natural gas. However, it needs electric for the ignition and to power on/off.

And why does that have to be GFCI?
Unless there is a line voltage immersion device in the pool a GFCI is not required.
Are you wiring your Qubino directly to the heater or to an outlet?

 

[sofakng]

What kind of pool heater requires so little amperage?

It's a natural gas pool heater. It's not using electric for heating purposes.

And why does that have to be GFCI?
Unless there is a line voltage immersion device in the pool a GFCI is not required.
Are you wiring your Qubino directly to the heater or to an outlet?

I thought any devices within 6 feet of the pool need to be GFCI? I was going to wire the Qubino to the outlet so I can disconnect the heater for the winter, etc.

 

[Missouri Bound]

I thought any devices within 6 feet of the pool need to be GFCI? I was going to wire the Qubino to the outlet so I can disconnect the heater for the winter, etc.

Can't you just use a GFCI outlet?
You can get the 10 amp breaker, put in the Qubino and the GFCI outlet and be done. I think you are over thinking this and making it more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[sofakng]

Can't you just use a GFCI outlet?
You can get the 10 amp breaker, put in the Qubino and the GFCI outlet and be done. I think you are over thinking this and making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Is it allowed to use a 10A breaker? I thought I read it might not be allowed in certain areas.

10A breaker plus GFCI outlet sounds like a good idea. This outlet is completely dedicated to the pool heater (which again is only 2 amps max) so I'm not worried about limiting the circuit breaker (unless it causes other problems?)

 

[Missouri Bound]

Is it allowed to use a 10A breaker? )

Yes. The breaker size in your instance is provided to protect the device.
In a perfect world the breaker would trip before an overloaded circuit would destroy your Qubino. Many outlets never see a fraction of their load rating....many get ramped up to the max every day.
Breakers generally are matched to the wire size to protect the circuit wiring.
Too large of a breaker on a circuit could allow the wire to burn up before the breaker tripped. You won't be having that issue.
Using a 10amp breaker and a GFCI with your device would be perfectly safe and just fine.