[73andsane]

No missing slates BUT about 24" at the edge of the two large sides of the roof, very old asphalt shingles ALMOST gone (no leaks that I've see evidence of) BUT-- if I have someone to install new asphalt (two rows of it each side) what if they DAMAGE or loosen my slates?? Can I get a written guarantee that THEY will replace or repair any damage that is done to my slates because I know I have a gem of a roof and slates are very expensive! What about having them take pictures of the whole roof for me first so I can have a record of the roof in it's present condition? I'm a widow on fixed income so these are important things to me so someone doesn't take advantage of me. Who could I hire to act as my overseer (I need a man to act as my guardian) to see to this and take bids and get assurances?? (I guess overseer is the wrong word but what is it called then?
Thanks

 

[Grumpy]

Asphalt mixed with slate is suspect. You say you have a gem of a roof but it's 115 years old. Granted slates will last a looooong time but at 115 years I would think it would need, or laready have undergone, major renovation. Certainly the flashings would need attention and some of the slates would have cracked or fallen. JUst natural wear and tear on any building material.

 

[Grumpy]

Just to keep everything organized, let's keep it to one post... http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/my-slate-roof-115-yrs-old-but-asphalt-edges-need-replaced-106178/

 

[73andsane]

Thanks for your replies---BUT--

I have a pic of the old asphalt shingles next to the first row of slate. I DO NOT need any inspection of the WHOLE roof-- only at the very edges on both sides that I estimate from the pic is about 12-15 inches vertically across the edges REPLACED. But you didn't address my main concern: who ever does the work WHAT if they damage existing slates?? Do you who may contractors understand--I MUST know the answer to this question FIRST. Will the contractor who does the work FIX any damage they do the the slates when installing asphalt shingles???
Diane

Diane

 

[Grumpy]

Diane I can only answer from my position and my policy. We can not and do not warrant pre existing materials especially on a 115 year old roof... and from the pics a 115 year old roof that wasn't properly repaired in the past. You simply can not know the condition of pre existing materials until you begin to take them apart.

I'm not a slate expert. We do some slate repair work though. If I were to write a proposal to repair this in my proposal you would see a line that would state:

Although Grumpy's Roofing Co. will take the utmost care in removing existing slate tiles from the roof, we can not be responsible for breakage to th existing slate. New slate tiles installed will cost an additional $X per standard 24" long reclaimed slate tiles. Note: New slate tiles will be similiar in color but may not match exactly the same.

 

[73andsane]

Grumpy, I must ask if you understand my question?

Evidently you know roofing and you can well see the pic that SHOWS asphalt needs done but do you see the edges of the adjoing slates? None are missing--I don't need slate repair, I am not missing any on the whole roof--I can use binoculars, stand back and NO SLATES are missin or needs replaced! Now tell me IF new asphalt can be put on where you see in the pic? Perhaps since this is not a lucrative roofing job you or someone like you just aren't interested? Honest opinion please--I won't be hiring your service anyway but I certainly appreciate your knowledge and talking with me. Your input is valuable!
So how does the roofer get asphalt underneath those touching slates anyway and NOT damage my slates? Perhaps modern roofers don't have the knowledge to work on a roof like you see? Maybe I need a European roofer where they have more experience with combination roofing on ancient houses like in Holland or England? What do you think?
Diane:thumbup:

 

[bob22]

Someone, for whatever reason (good or bad) added on the asphalt shingles. Good luck to the roofer who tries to replace them without breaking some of the slate above and maintain weather tight conditions. Diane, you best be prepared to pay for a bunch of new slate when whoever you get from Holland or England or elsewhere comes to fix it.

 

[Slyfox]

I just got back from picking my daughter up from school "home from college for the summer" in PA and noticed 3 homes on the drive that have slate roofs in the field and asphalt shingles on the eaves, two of them actually had asphalt on the eaves and rakes.
I never even noticed/paid attention to them before but did after reading this post this morning before I left.

I would guess the eaves had been rebuilt at one point (storm damage or simply to add ventilation) and shingles used then due to cost.

Can you find some one to take on this project, yes.
Can you get a guarantee from them to cover cost of damage they do to the slates, yes.
It's going to be costly tho.

You'll need to find a "slater", not just a roofer or a shingler.
Try looking up local construction consultants and slate roofers.

Don't let anyone on the roof until you have everything in writing and don't pay anymore then 40% of the total estimated cost up front.
Also let them know up front that you will hold 10% of the total cost back at the point of completion and only pay it after you have their work inspected.

 

[Grumpy]

You DO need a slate repair because a PROPER tie-in from the lower asphalt shingles to the existing slate would be that the slate overlaps the asphalt shingles approximately 18" (preferrably closer to 36"), so there is no way to PROPERLY make the repair without removing at least the first course of slate, installing the shingles, and reinstalling the courses of slate. This CAN be done, but if you don't want your slate roof touched, it can't be done PROPERLY.

Heck, a proper repair would be to remove the asphalt shingle and re-install slate. That's why I said the repair in the past was improper. Whoever would have done that to your roof was just out to make a buck.

As for "lucrative", I (as all professional contractors) price every job to make money. Making money is not a sin. I'll go out and repalce 1 shingle or caulk 1 chimney, but I will make money on every job. Every job can be lucrtivate assuming the customer is willing to pay a fair price and isn't asking for charity.

Anything CAN be done, we put a man on the moon, just remember that costs billions of dollars. So yes anything can be done, if the budget allows. In other words anything is possible, it just costs more. Also remember there is always a right way and a wrong way to do things.

If a slate roofer from Holland or England were to see that asphalt shingle installed with the slate, he would likley fly back tot he old country cursing all Americans for their lously workmanship. The slate roofing teqhniques are available for all who take a moment to educate themselves. For example I have the Slate Roofing Bible as well as the National Roofing Contractors Association's Roofing Mauals. The information is out there on how to properly install a roof. As I said I am no slate expert, I've only installed a couple of slate roofs. I would reocmmend seeking out Tinner who does much more slate work than I or English Roofer from www.roofingtalk.com I do suspect both are going to tell you that there is no proper way of doing it without removing at least some slate.

 

[Grumpy]

Also let them know up front that you will hold 10% of the total cost back at the point of completion and only pay it after you have their work inspected.

Diane, I want to clarify something Sly said. Sly is talking about a retention. This is common in new construction and major commercial work. However this should be something that is discussed upfront. The inspecting party should also be identified upfront. The details, codes and specifications of which the roofer must adhere to must also then be discussed upfront.

The point? Arbitrarily holding back 10% after the job is done is a good way to create tension and bad blood with the roofer. All things are possible with proper communication. Just keep in mind the more hoops the roofer has to jump through the higher the price typically.


Sly, my guess why this was done was possibly related to ice daming. I say that because of the aluminum visible benath the shingles. People used to use that around here for ice problems before ice shield was installed. But you could be right too, ventilation may have been the issue. Who really knows at this point without inspecting the job.

 

[Slyfox]

Diane, I want to clarify something Sly said. Sly is talking about a retention. This is common in new construction and major commercial work. However this should be something that is discussed upfront. The inspecting party should also be identified upfront. The details, codes and specifications of which the roofer must adhere to must also then be discussed upfront.

The point? Arbitrarily holding back 10% after the job is done is a good way to create tension and bad blood with the roofer. All things are possible with proper communication. Just keep in mind the more hoops the roofer has to jump through the higher the price typically.


Sly, my guess why this was done was possibly related to ice daming. I say that because of the aluminum visible benath the shingles. People used to use that around here for ice problems before ice shield was installed. But you could be right too, ventilation may have been the issue. Who really knows at this point without inspecting the job.

Yeah I saw that over sized drip/gutter apron many a times here in my area as well, I included that thought in the Storm Damage comment.

Your correct on advising her to make sure everything is discussed up front about both the work and payment issues, a repair like this could turn ugly really fast if some inexperienced roofer jumps on it thinking he/she can make a quick buck and then find out their going to dish out 10 too 30 bucks a "per" slate to fix what they goofed up trying to get a proper tie-in.

 

[73andsane]

You have been most helpful.

By weighing your helpful discussions, you have made me consider my other alternative: leaving it alone. This is too much in dollars and also in the real possibility that anyone that I would hire could still rip me off and I would never know the difference. At my age, I'll just wait for death and my children can figure it out! I don't have any leaking in the attic so at this point I was just trying to make the house look better for when they have to sell it that's all. The siding on the house (6500 sq ft.) is vinyl not aluminum and all the windows have been replaced. About the roof age: my Colonial was built in 1895 and it had gaslight (electricity put in later) and an outhouse (bathroom built later in upstaires walkin closet). All hardwood floors and maple woodwork, FP in LR).
Thanks again! Diane in Lakewood, Ohio
Diane:wink:

 

[Grumpy]

Diane why don't you ask your children for assistance in this?

 

[73andsane]

Grown children all moved away.

This will be their house to divide up so they can decide THEN and I believe it just makes better sense to let another buyer (and adjust a price) than tackel this slate roof problem that has maintained NO COST for 115 yrs. to the only two owners this house ever had--my In Laws, then their son, now me. Thanks and get over being Grumpy--you sound and talk like a very nice man--from Chicago! Just wondering if you are still active in the roofing business or retired? Diane:yes:

 

[Grumpy]

The way things are going, I'll probably never be able to afford retirement. I've got another 20-30 years in me before my much anticipated heart attack.

 

[tinner666]

Interesting thread. The price for tying in new shingles will include replacing 3 courses of slate. Not only that, any additional slate will cost $25.00 each to replace.
Those are Vermonts and at the end of their life. AND, the roof area is nearly flat and unsuitable for slate or shingles.
Not to mention, the roof is 6 years older than it was when that photo was taken.
Since I can't see the whole thing, I'm guessing the cost at $3,200. per side.